- 4 weeks ago
Ever wondered what it takes to bring a massive Sphere residency from blueprint to opening night? In this episode, Billboard On The Record pulls back the curtain with Head of Sphere Studios Carolyn Blackwood and Head of Booking Josephine Vaccarello to walk us through the high-stakes world of planning, engineering, and executing one of live music’s most ambitious venue experiences. Get insider access to the strategies, challenges and innovations that make Sphere residencies a game-changer.
Love what you hear? Follow Billboard On The Record on Instagram, Apple Podcasts, Spotify and @billboard YouTube so you never miss an episode.
Billboard On The Record is a podcast in partnership with SickBird Productions.
Love what you hear? Follow Billboard On The Record on Instagram, Apple Podcasts, Spotify and @billboard YouTube so you never miss an episode.
Billboard On The Record is a podcast in partnership with SickBird Productions.
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MusicTranscript
00:00Hello, and welcome to On the Record, a new music business podcast from Billboard and
00:04Sickbird Productions.
00:05I'm your host, Kristen Robinson, and each week on the show, we will be inviting you
00:09into conversations that I have with executives, artists, and journalists about the music
00:14business all day, every day.
00:16Today is no different.
00:17For today's show, we're actually not in Los Angeles at our usual studio.
00:21We are live at Sphere in Las Vegas, and more specifically, we are backstage at Sphere, where
00:27I'm going to be joined by two key executives at the venue, Josephine Vaccarello and Carolyn
00:33Blackwood.
00:34Josephine Vaccarello is the head of booking for MSG Entertainment, so she does Sphere, as well
00:39as a bunch of other venues, including MSG, including Radio City, all the above.
00:44She does it all.
00:45And we're also joined by Carolyn Blackwood, who is the head of Sphere Studios, which does
00:49a lot of the visual and immersive elements of Sphere.
00:52Together, we're going to talk through all of the nitty-gritty details that go into booking
00:56key residencies at Sphere, from U2 to Backstreet Boys to Anima and everywhere in between.
01:02So, with all that being said, please welcome to the show, Josephine Vaccarello and Carolyn
01:08Blackwood.
01:12I'm so glad that you guys are here.
01:14When did y'all both get here?
01:16Well, I've been here all week, but I've been back and forth from LA, so I've spent a lot
01:20of time here in the past month in particular.
01:22Yeah, I got here on Saturday.
01:23What is more difficult?
01:24Is it doing the residencies or putting on an immersive experience like The Wizard of
01:29Oz?
01:30What is the most time-intensive?
01:31Well, in my world, it's the residencies, because that's what I over-say.
01:34But, I mean, there is a lot that goes into...
01:38Yeah, they're different, is what I'd say.
01:41They're very different.
01:42The residencies are incredibly time-intensive for us, too.
01:45But it's a shorter amount of time.
01:48You might start working on them, you know, six, eight months in advance.
01:51The experiences can be two years plus.
01:54Oh, wow.
01:54Yeah.
01:55Okay.
01:55So, when did The Wizard of Oz start?
01:57Two years ago.
01:58Yeah.
01:59Wow.
02:00Okay.
02:00That's crazy.
02:01What was one of your proudest moments at Sphere so far?
02:04For me, it was opening night, for sure.
02:07Very, very opening night.
02:08Very, very opening night.
02:09You, too.
02:09I didn't breathe the entire night.
02:11But watching it all come to life after all the planning was a moment.
02:16So, were you just in the crowd with everyone else, or did you have to be working that night?
02:20Always working.
02:21Always.
02:22Is the answer.
02:22Always on the clock.
02:23Literally always working.
02:25But it was, you know, making sure that everything was running smoothly and there's no issues.
02:31It's what I do at every show.
02:33Yeah.
02:33And Carolyn, what about you?
02:35I wasn't here for opening.
02:36I've only been at the company for a little, almost a year and a half.
02:41So, I think for me, it was probably the Kenny Chesney opening of that residency.
02:47It was the first one of the residencies where I had been there from the start and worked really,
02:55really closely with the artist and the teams and had that sort of marriage and collaboration
03:00in a way that was incredibly satisfying.
03:02And everyone got super close and worked really hard and sort of getting there, you know,
03:08on that evening, both nerve wracking and really satisfying because you're like, I've been
03:14here, you know, you've been there from the beginning of the process.
03:17So, that felt like my first sort of full circle moment.
03:20Yeah.
03:21How long does it take to plan one of these residencies?
03:25I don't know if there's a set time.
03:27I think it's anywhere between eight months and a year.
03:30Okay.
03:30Yeah.
03:30I think that's right.
03:31The right amount.
03:32I think that's right.
03:33Yeah.
03:33And it depends too because there's an intensity of, you know, getting the creative ideas down,
03:41knowing what you're going for, tweaking, changing.
03:44There's a little bit more of a, you know, it's not an intense process in the, you know,
03:49in the sort of middle part of it because you're just sort of plugging along.
03:51And then you get into like full throttle testing in Big Dome constantly making sure everything's
03:59okay, rendering out versions, you know, making changes and it gets pretty intense.
04:04So, it's a different ramp up during those, you know, eight, nine, 10 months, 12 months,
04:09just depending.
04:10Like with Kenny, it was, we started early because he was on tour.
04:13Right.
04:13And he wanted footage from the tour.
04:14And he wanted to capture a lot of that footage from the tour that he would use in the show.
04:18So, that was an earlier start for that reason.
04:20Yeah.
04:20Absolutely.
04:20Interesting.
04:21And Kenny was one of the first country, or he was the first country artist.
04:25First country artist.
04:25Correct.
04:25Okay.
04:26And then you have Zac Brown later this year.
04:28Yep.
04:29Yeah.
04:29Very exciting.
04:30So, I'm wondering, do you, when you're booking, are you considering the demographics of the
04:36fan base that this artist has?
04:39Absolutely.
04:39It's, you know, we want to make sure that we're opening and showing the world sphere.
04:44So, you know, different genres, different artists is definitely what we're looking at.
04:49What are some other considerations that you think make an artist the right fit for sphere?
04:53It's creativity, for sure.
04:55It's figuring out that artist's vision.
04:58And, you know, it's learning in a brand new medium.
05:01We have this, you know, whole new set of toys for them to play with and for them to be creative
05:07into what they're going to show their fans.
05:10But, you know, it's creativity.
05:13What was one of the most ambitious residencies?
05:16Every single one is ambitious because they're all coming in with their own story.
05:21They're all coming in with, you know, their own ideas of what they want to do.
05:25And it's actually great because every single act that comes in wants to, I'm going to say
05:31one up the last one, right?
05:33How can I do something more?
05:34How can I do something different than the last act has done?
05:37And so each of them are ambitious.
05:40And how many shows does it typically take to break even and then start earning a profit
05:45on these shows?
05:47I don't know that there's a finite number, but I think that 12 is the right number.
05:51So typically when you're looking to book people, you're hoping to hit that magic number of
05:5512.
05:55Yeah, 12 or more.
05:57Yeah.
05:58And then how does it work when, like the Backstreet Boys, for example, who I just saw, that was
06:02my first sphere show.
06:04Did you wear all white?
06:04Did you wear all white?
06:05I wore all black because I didn't get the memo.
06:09I mean, I'm with you, obviously.
06:11So yeah, I walked in and I had no idea.
06:16And I was like, I completely missed this memo.
06:18I jokingly told my sister who I brought with me to the show that like, oh, you know, we
06:22should wear millennium white.
06:23But I was like, no, that's too corny.
06:25I'm not going to try to dress up.
06:26It's amazing to see.
06:28Everyone was having such a great time in their white.
06:30And I was, I was left out.
06:32Well, opening night, opening night, Jojo and I did the all white thing.
06:37Hey, good.
06:38Both of us, I think we had to go out and buy clothes.
06:40Buy because I have nothing.
06:42So we were like, okay, we have to do it.
06:44We have to, we have to actually show up.
06:46Right.
06:47So we wore head to toe, right.
06:48And we joked about it too.
06:49We were like, you will never see us like this again.
06:52I mean, I'm in, you know, like I've got, I've got my colorful sweater on tonight, but
06:55the ground of course is still black.
06:57Right.
06:57So, but normally I am head to toe black like Jojo here.
07:00Yeah.
07:00I was embarrassed that I showed up in all black, but I still enjoyed the show.
07:04Everything went great.
07:05My sister got the memo and she wore all white and she looked great.
07:07I'm glad he didn't tell you.
07:09Okay.
07:09That's cool.
07:10But I loved the show.
07:11It was also so fun to see like everyone was a millennial woman.
07:17I feel at home.
07:19These are my people here.
07:20Yes.
07:21But it was fun to see what a strong and very specific fan base there was.
07:25But now they're coming back.
07:27They've announced two new legs, essentially.
07:31December for a new year's run.
07:32And then they're coming back in February again.
07:34Got it.
07:34So is that something that you kind of reserve in advance, hoping that if this sells well,
07:40we'll keep those dates for them?
07:42Yep.
07:42Okay.
07:43It's exactly like that.
07:44And in all honesty, dealing with the calendar is unlike other buildings where you come in
07:48and, you know, pop in a few dates here and there.
07:50It's really Tetris because you don't know what the breadth is.
07:54You don't know what it's going to be until it goes up.
07:57I'm wondering, do you have any sort of like software that you use that can help you predict
08:02how many nights someone could probably sell out?
08:06There's a lot of data, right?
08:07To figure out an act, how many tickets they've sold, what their touring history is, all of
08:12that.
08:12But there is, you know, what they would do on tour and then what they would do in Sphere.
08:17And Sphere has its own oomph to it.
08:20It changes things a little bit.
08:22It changes what maybe would normally happen on tour.
08:27So do artists tend to sell more tickets than usual because it's such an event?
08:31It's hard to say, right?
08:32Because there's nothing like it anywhere else.
08:35But I definitely think that it does give it a little more firepower.
08:40Yeah.
08:40And then how do you plan on slotting in other experiences at Sphere with the residencies?
08:46Because like you're saying, it's a game of Tetris.
08:47So you want to leave spots open for the right act to come in.
08:51But also you want to do things like the Wizard of Oz, which take two years to plan.
08:55We're a building that runs 365 days a year.
08:58We don't have dark days.
09:00So we have experiences on days.
09:03We have experiences on concert days.
09:06We will do two experiences in the morning and then flip the house over and do a concert
09:10that night.
09:11Wow.
09:11So is there something going on right now?
09:13Correct.
09:13Postgres North is playing right now.
09:15Yep.
09:15Yeah.
09:16What's the goal with Postcard to Earth?
09:18Is that essentially just offering a lower cost option for people to experience Sphere?
09:23Well, I mean, I think Postgres has been running now since the building opened, right?
09:27So when Wizard of Oz comes in, that will sort of refresh the experience offering for people
09:33for a while.
09:35And eventually you build up a library of things where you can rotate things in and out.
09:40But we're still new and we're still learning and we're still creating things, right?
09:42But to JoJo's point, the question often becomes, all right, how many shows can you put in a
09:47day when you have a residency that night?
09:49I think we're comfortable with two.
09:52And some days we figured out three.
09:54We figured out three.
09:55And we're comfortable with two.
09:56For a late night.
09:57Every once in a while.
09:58Uh-huh.
09:58Yep.
09:58Wow.
09:59We sneak a third one in there.
10:00Uh-huh.
10:01But yeah, so to JoJo's point, it is Tetris.
10:05And then there's other things that we do here.
10:06We have marquee events at times as well, where it's like-
10:08Like UFC.
10:09You know, like UFC or NHL live draft.
10:11Yep.
10:12And then, you know, there are periodically corporate keynotes, like during CES.
10:16Oh, wow.
10:16Okay.
10:17So there are other things that happen in the building that we have to sort of plan for
10:21across our portfolio of offerings, so to speak.
10:24It feels like, I mean, Wizard of Oz obviously taking two years is a very intensive process,
10:28but after that you'll have it.
10:30That's right.
10:30And so, I mean, it's the goal eventually to get to a place where just basically any day
10:36that there's like a slot open, you can start slotting in postcards, Wizard of Oz, various
10:41Library, a library of content.
10:43Yeah, absolutely.
10:43So there's just more already being worked on for future iterations.
10:46That's right.
10:46Wow.
10:47Yeah.
10:47And so the first residency here was U2.
10:50Yep.
10:51I'm wondering, of all of the options that you had, why U2?
10:56I mean, U2 is a band that has always pushed the boundaries.
10:58And I have to be honest, like they took that leap of faith with us.
11:04I mean, the building was not finished with yet when they signed on and they've always
11:08been on the forefront, you know, specifically with their tours and technology and they are,
11:14you know, a world renowned band.
11:16Yeah.
11:17It was, it was the right match.
11:19After the U2 residency, what do you feel like you learned from that experience that you
11:23could take with you into booking future residencies?
11:26Looking at future residencies, it's really about the creativity of the artists and working
11:31hand in hand with that artist, because it really does become a marriage because you're
11:37working with them for, you know, six months, eight months, 10 months on day in and day out
11:42on what it is that they're trying to, you know, portray.
11:46So it's really, it's not only about their creativity, but it's that relationship that
11:52you have to, you know, really hold close.
11:55It sounds like something where if it's not the right fit, there's no way that it could
12:00work because it's such a time intensive and such a close process.
12:03It's a commitment for sure.
12:04No question.
12:04I think one of the things that I think about with sphere booking is it might run into a
12:11similar problem or challenge per se that a festival headliner slot might run into and
12:18that there's only a handful of artists that really can do it.
12:23So I'm wondering, how do you tackle that issue?
12:25If you feel there is one?
12:26I don't really know that there is one.
12:29And in all honesty, the more we do, the more we learn.
12:32Also, the more we do, the quicker we are, the less expensive it is to do.
12:38Like we are continually learning as each new residency comes in.
12:43And it's really about translating that vision.
12:47You know, look, not every artist is going to be able to do 30 shows, 40 shows, you know,
12:51but there are definitely a lot of artists that can do six shows, eight shows, 10 shows,
12:58and it's figuring out how to make it work.
13:00Do you ever recycle visuals for shows?
13:04But you always try not to do that.
13:05I mean, obviously, when artists come back, you know, like the Eagles comes back and
13:10Danco comes back and whatever, there's a certain amount of their show that they keep that is
13:14sort of a bedrock and then they look to refresh things.
13:17And when we're working on shows, you know, if we're, if we're working on, you know, it
13:23doesn't matter who the artist might be and we do a piece for them, we're not taking that
13:28piece and using it for another artist.
13:30Yeah.
13:31That's because they are with us.
13:32Yeah.
13:33You know, are there, are there elements that can get repurposed in content library?
13:38Because for instance, we, you know, we have our big sky proprietary camera, high resolution
13:42camera, and we capture images.
13:44We'll go and capture, you know, the Northern Lights.
13:46We'll capture certain things that they might use as elements in a show.
13:51And maybe that element would get repurposed in some artists, other show in an entirely
13:56different, you know, creative way.
13:58So in that regard, sometimes content can, can be sort of banked.
14:03But yeah, there are no, no piece would actually be repurposed or recycled.
14:07Also no artist is going to want to do what another artist has done.
14:11No, what they're going to want to do is see a piece and say, oh, I love that idea.
14:15Now I'm going to do my version of that, you know, and that's actually, that's actually
14:19good competition.
14:20Yeah.
14:20You know?
14:21Yeah.
14:21We love that.
14:22We love that.
14:23Yeah.
14:23Absolutely.
14:23Everybody ups their game.
14:25Yeah.
14:25I mean, this is probably a very inside baseball kind of question, but what's the cloud storage
14:30situation at this venue?
14:32Like, I imagine that's quite...
14:36It's a thing.
14:36It's a thing.
14:37It's definitely a thing.
14:39Yeah.
14:39We talk about it a lot.
14:41We talk about how we, every, every day we talk about this because, you know, there are
14:48certain, there are costs associated with archiving any material and, and even rendering in the
14:53cloud can be very expensive depending on how you do it and, and how you choose to, you
15:01know, prioritize certain things.
15:04So it's a, it's, it's another version of Tetris.
15:06It's just in the cloud.
15:08Wow.
15:08Okay.
15:08So do you have to throw out things at some point?
15:10We do.
15:11We sometimes we'll, we'll put it this way.
15:13What we will do is it's just like anything else, like on postcards for minutes, for instance,
15:19when I came into the studio, again, after opening, one of the first things that we started
15:23looking at was some of our storage issues.
15:25And we found that just like on your hard drive, there was like 9,000 versions of it saved.
15:31Oh my God.
15:32And so you have to be like, okay, wait, do I really need the first cut?
15:36No, maybe I can, I'll just save like come a couple of these iterations and then you purge
15:40the rest of it.
15:41So you do have to kind of do housekeeping.
15:43It's just good hygiene, right?
15:45To go through and do that kind of stuff.
15:47So sometimes stuff does get purged, but for the most part, we do have a, of a cloud storage
15:52capabilities where we can really depree stuff at a much less expensive price.
15:58But if all of a sudden JoJo calls me and says, Hey, can you go pull that thing?
16:01I'm like, you know, at least you told me that.
16:03Oh, I'm sorry.
16:03Give me storage because now it's going to cost me more money to get it back.
16:08Yep.
16:09But yeah.
16:10Wow.
16:10I think I would have a heart attack if I was tasked with deleting only a few versions of
16:16something.
16:16We were judicious about it, but we try to be smart.
16:20Yeah.
16:20Don't you guys have a rehearsal space in Los Angeles?
16:23It's like a, like a mini sphere.
16:26That's my home.
16:27That's the baby.
16:28Okay.
16:28Tell me about that.
16:29Tell me about that.
16:30So, um, we call it big dome, um, which I actually lovingly call Thunderdome.
16:35Uh, and, and it's right next to our offices.
16:37So our studio is there in Los Angeles near the Burbank airport.
16:40And what people see when they go to the Burbank airport right next door is this large dome
16:45structure.
16:46Okay.
16:46And that is, that's our testing facility.
16:49So essentially that is, it represents a screen.
16:53The media plane inside there is about a quarter scale of what it is here in Las Vegas.
16:59And it is an absolute godsend for us in terms of reviewing material, testing material, QC
17:07material, because if we had to do that here in venue, we'd never be able to do it because
17:12the venue is, the venue is being used 24 seven.
17:14And either we're showing, you know, an, an, an experience or we have an event or we're
17:20doing maintenance, you know, on the screens or we're doing, it's 24 seven here.
17:24Where would we actually test this material?
17:26So we have this facility and that is where I spend a lot of my time.
17:30Why is it in LA and not just somewhere else in Vegas?
17:32Well, the studio is in LA.
17:34And I think one of the reasons for that too, is a lot of the people that, you know, we
17:38do in business with, and we're in business with are there in Los Angeles.
17:41It's still the entertainment, you know, sort of capital.
17:43And so it makes a lot of sense for our studio to be based there.
17:47Our teams are based there.
17:48Our, you know, our, our artisans, our craftsmen, our technical people, you know, we've pilfered
17:54the best people from around the industry, the traditional sort of film or, you know, or
17:58visual medium industry.
18:00And they're right there.
18:01So studio there, testing facility there works out great.
18:05Not that far from Vegas, quick 40 minute flight.
18:08It is a creation happens basically.
18:10Got it.
18:11Okay.
18:11So on the inside, does it look exactly like Sphere?
18:15No.
18:16No.
18:16Okay.
18:18It's very much like a huge warehouse.
18:20Yeah.
18:20Okay.
18:21But it's got like, you know, risers that, you know, sort of like bleachers sort of set up.
18:26It feels industrial.
18:27It's sort of intended to be a little bit like we're here, you know, in the engine room testing
18:32out this material and, and the screen itself, like I said, it's not a, you know, it's, it's
18:38a quarter scale, but you still get, you get what you need in terms of visually being
18:44able to see things that you could never see on a laptop.
18:47Yeah.
18:47And is that also where the artists are going to rehearse too?
18:50Or is that more of like a technical rehearsal for you and your crew?
18:53It's really a visual space for content creation.
18:57We have used this space in the past to do like mini shoots and green screen shoots and
19:03things like that for some of the artists.
19:04So sometimes, and the artists do come in there and review their material there.
19:08Yeah.
19:08You know, like we'll, we do a lot of our reviews there with the artists directly, but they're
19:12not physically rehearsing.
19:15Okay.
19:15You know, there, there's other spaces that they have.
19:18We'll go to a sound studio for the sound piece.
19:19One of the things that I thought was really interesting when thinking about some of the
19:24artists that have played Sphere before, um, Dead and Company is the one that immediately
19:28comes to mind.
19:29I am very curious to understand how the visuals work for an artist like that, given they're
19:35known for noodling around, ad-libbing.
19:38How do you sync up a fine-tuned visual like this to an artist like Dead and Company?
19:44Well, they're probably one of the most interesting, um, groups because they, they're highly, highly
19:52used of CG, right?
19:53And, and the digital medium and space, they don't do a lot with live capture.
19:57And again, they play around with a lot of different tools, um, that allow them to ideate
20:03and, and, and change things, you know, a little bit more frequently, let's say, than some other
20:08shows that tend to sort of be more baked and they change their playlist every night.
20:11So, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a, they're a unique, um, example, but they, they, you know,
20:18they've, they've created this digital library of things that they use and tools that they use that
20:23they sort of play around with, but it's a jam band, you know?
20:26So a lot of that stuff is, you know, not as much storytelling as you might see with, you know,
20:32like an act like the Eagles, you know?
20:34That, that's very interesting.
20:35I imagine Fish was probably the same way.
20:38Same thing, real time.
20:39Yeah.
20:39And I know that they, they have like this lighting guy that all the fans love that they
20:43wanted to bring in.
20:44How did you guys work with him?
20:46Look, he is, um, he is an integral part of team Fish.
20:50So, you know, his voice and how things looked were, you know, um, I do think that it was,
20:58it's different for them, right?
21:00So Fish, while they do, do a lot of like light looks and laser looks, they are not a visual
21:06band per se.
21:06So this was completely and totally different for them.
21:08And Chris played a part in that as well.
21:11Yeah.
21:11Creative direction standpoint.
21:13Yeah.
21:13It feels like that was probably a really key piece to getting Fish probably to feel comfortable
21:18with taking this leap, knowing they still have the core part.
21:21Yeah, absolutely.
21:23Absolutely.
21:24All artists want that.
21:25And we want everyone to be comfortable, but they're also working in a new medium and it's
21:29stepping outside of their comfort zone a little bit.
21:31I'm wondering, so you also book Madison Square Garden among other venues, many other
21:36venues, as we were just talking about.
21:38I don't know when you're sleeping, but, uh, oh, sleep.
21:42But I'm wondering Madison Square Garden and a lot of other arenas are usually very customizable
21:48in terms of how many seats there are.
21:50Um, so you can take away hundreds or thousands of seats or add them back in based on what
21:55artists wants to play there.
21:57At Sphere, can you do the same thing?
21:59You can on the floor.
22:00The floor is malleable.
22:01So depending on the stage size, the stage placement, that we have retractables on the
22:06floor that can be pushed back.
22:07So you can actually go from a 5,000 cap floor if it's completely open, depending on stage
22:12side to an 1100 GA floor, depending on what it is that they want.
22:18Well, look at Backstreet, right?
22:19I mean, Backstreet used a totally different kind of stage, you know, because as a pop act,
22:23they used a totally different kind of stage.
22:25And it was larger than any other stage that we've actually had in here.
22:28Oh, interesting.
22:29Okay.
22:29Talk to me about that, about the stage and how customizable that.
22:34Everyone, they dream it up and they bring it in.
22:36And it's really what it is that they want to do.
22:38I think that that one was the interesting one where I remember when we had the first
22:41conversations and they said, we're going to elevate the stage.
22:43They want to fly.
22:44They want to fly.
22:45They want to fly.
22:46So bad.
22:46And we were like, okay.
22:48I was like, all right, well, we haven't done that yet.
22:50So we have to figure that out.
22:52And that's one of the things that's interesting about Sphere to the point that Jojo made earlier,
22:55which is we're still learning, right?
22:57This is still a new venue where, you know, we're all still learning together.
23:01And the idea of someone saying, but you know what?
23:03I want to do this.
23:04And we all kind of go, oh yeah, that's pretty good.
23:05Okay, let's figure out how we do it.
23:08Wow.
23:08That's so interesting because when I was at Backstreet Boys, I was scared for them while
23:13they were going up.
23:15It's actually not scary.
23:17I did it.
23:18I did it.
23:19It's cool.
23:20I imagine they strap you in.
23:21Yes.
23:21Absolutely.
23:22You're tethered.
23:23Tethered in.
23:23You're tethered in.
23:24It's completely safe.
23:25But yeah.
23:26Is it lifted from the top or from the bottom?
23:28So there are about 200 rigging points in the ceiling.
23:31But for that, we used four and chains and motors come down, attaches to the stage, and
23:36then it lifts.
23:37Wow.
23:37Okay.
23:38What are some of the other stagings that you found to be particularly interesting at
23:43Sphere so far?
23:44When Anima came in and, you know, it's EDM, so it's completely different.
23:48You don't need this massive stage.
23:50So he had, you know, his setup and then the three towers behind him.
23:54That was really interesting.
23:55It's also about being movable because we do do Sphere Experience during the day and
24:01then change over to a concert at night.
24:03Everything has to be mobile.
24:04You need to be able to basically, once the show is over, take the stage, push it into
24:08its position, and then we change the house over and do something else.
24:13Wow.
24:13So it's a different way of thinking things as opposed to something just sitting there.
24:16Okay.
24:17So once the ink is dry, an artist is booked, and they're definitely going to be doing a
24:20residency, what is the first step right after that?
24:24The first step after that is the storyboard to figure out what it is that they want to
24:30show the world, and then it's introductions to the studios and to the audio team to figure
24:34out how to make that dream happen for them.
24:36Yeah.
24:37We will sit down with that artist and we'll start to ideate, you know, take the initial
24:41visuals, work together, you know, get to the bottom of like, okay, what are we trying to
24:47do here?
24:47What's the set list?
24:49The set list is always a big part of how they know what they're trying, the story they're
24:52trying to tell.
24:53And a lot of times it will change during the creative process.
24:56Certain songs might get dropped.
24:58Other songs might get added.
25:00Always changes.
25:00You know, and then you go, you know, you go through your journey of six, eight, 10, 12
25:05months or whatever it might be and locking that stuff down so that you get to that point
25:09where, you know, opening night, they all feel good.
25:12Everybody is ready.
25:13They feel good about the show.
25:15And then they will change it.
25:16So what typically changes after opening night?
25:18Because that seems pretty tricky if you're going at the pace of about a show a night,
25:24right?
25:24Or how often do artists play sphere when they're in the middle of their residency?
25:30Is it every night?
25:30It depends.
25:31It depends on the artist.
25:32It depends on the cadence.
25:33Some of them, you know, will do three days in a row, like a weekend, Thursday, Friday,
25:36Saturday.
25:37Some will do a Wednesday, Friday, Saturday.
25:39It really depends on the artist's preference.
25:40Got it.
25:41And so what are typically the things that you see people change after that opening night
25:45and they start, their wheels start turning about what they could do differently?
25:48I've seen IMAG change.
25:49Yeah.
25:50IMAG changes a lot.
25:51Yeah.
25:51You know, I think, well, you know, when they have their sort of the picture in picture on
25:56the screen, along with whether the content is, let's say that they're, you know, because
25:59they're small on that stage, right?
26:01They're tiny little people on the stage.
26:03Yeah.
26:04Or artists, depending.
26:05And when you've got, you know, the crowds way up in, you know, the sort of 400s or in
26:10the suites.
26:11And one of the things that's great about the use of IMAG on the media plane, meaning it's
26:16a camera on the artist where you can see the artist, you know, into.
26:20So sometimes there's IMAG that's being used so the audience can feel sort of more of a
26:25connection to the artist.
26:27And then other times they're not using any IMAG and then they realize during the course
26:32of like, oh, you know what?
26:32I want to put IMAG in this queue now, you know?
26:35So sometimes I'll see that change.
26:37Yeah.
26:37And I think I don't know, Joe, your opinion.
26:40But for me, one of the things I've seen is you can go through the whole show, they can
26:44be prepared for this and they get an audience in that building.
26:47And then they say, oh, I want to connect differently.
26:52Or there's something that I didn't anticipate being here, seeing that.
26:57And that gets them inspired a lot of times.
27:00So you'll see you'll see some things that might be subtle, might be, you know, might be
27:04bigger, but it's it's being in the building on that opening night with their fans and
27:10then sort of getting inspired.
27:12I think that's right.
27:12It's really more about additions.
27:14Yeah.
27:14Yeah.
27:15OK.
27:15Yeah.
27:16That makes sense.
27:17So what is backing up from opening night to dress rehearsal?
27:21What does that typically look like?
27:23And I mean, is that just kind of a time to also test out the tech at the same time?
27:28Or are there technical rehearsals, then dress rehearsals?
27:31Like, give me the lowdown on leading up to opening night.
27:34From the content perspective, most of the work is done in Big Dome prior to.
27:39So that happens there.
27:39Then from an audio perspective, we send our audio team with our audio rig to mimic sphere
27:45immersive sound that we have in the building so that the artist is ready for what that
27:49is, because it is different than playing in another venue because of the way the speakers
27:53are behind the media plane.
27:55So you have to use inter-ears.
27:56It's a different experience.
27:58We want everyone to be comfortable when they come into the building.
28:00And then because we are doing events every single day, there are no dark days, right?
28:06So there are no real rehearsal full days.
28:09What we do is we take hours and that could be overnight hours.
28:11It could be early morning or late night hours for the artist to come in and do their rehearsals
28:16until the day of the show.
28:18Wow.
28:18Yeah.
28:18I didn't even think about the fact that since it never goes dark, you're going to have to
28:22just squeeze this iconic artist in.
28:25We literally book the building 24 hours a day.
28:28Wow.
28:28Everything is succinctly timed.
28:31Wow.
28:32Carolyn, I'm wondering, what are some of the visual things that you're able to do that are
28:38actually more technically challenging that people might imagine?
28:41Well, look, it is a 16K resolution screen.
28:45And in order to put visuals on that screen, whether it's live capture, meaning you're using
28:51the Big Sky camera system, which is the camera system we developed in order to be able to
28:57shoot imagery, live capture imagery in that resolution, that's a heft.
29:05It's like there's only so many of these cameras that we have.
29:08There's only so many people who are trained on these cameras.
29:10So that's more difficult.
29:12And then, you know, even in the digital environments that we work with and create, you're talking
29:19about a very, very, very high resolution render.
29:22Meaning, back to our conversations on technology, it's a lot of time and a lot of heft in getting
29:30that kind of material rendered out properly for that screen.
29:34That's always harder.
29:35People underestimate that.
29:37There's a lot of people that will come to us in partnership with some artists and say,
29:42oh, yeah, we're going to help create this content.
29:44And when we talk to these people and we're like, okay, so have you rendered it 12K before?
29:50Have you rendered it, you know, at 16K before?
29:53And what's your cloud situation?
29:56What's your render farm?
29:57What's your capabilities?
29:58And everyone underestimates it.
30:00You know, they always say, oh, yeah, how hard can it be?
30:02Until they try it.
30:03Until they try it.
30:04And of course, we're mapping everything spherically.
30:07So this is not a rectilinear image.
30:10So you can't just like take it and then just blow it up.
30:13It's not going to look right.
30:14It's going to be distorted.
30:16It's not going to have the proper fidelity.
30:17So you have to actually be prepared to learn something new to come on board and create
30:24that content with us because it's not going to be like anything they've ever done before.
30:27Yeah.
30:27And I imagine that's also the same challenge that you're facing with Wizard of Oz.
30:32It's a rectilinear image.
30:40Now it's in a sphere.
30:41Was that the biggest challenge?
30:43Yeah, I mean, we obviously for that, we also we made a sort of a groundbreaking partnership
30:48with Google and Magnopus to do to use generative AI and different types of AI tools with the
30:56artists in order to feel that to fill that field of view.
31:00Right.
31:00Because you're starting like this and it's an existing film.
31:02So how are you going to do it?
31:03Well, that was part of the that was part of the journey for us on that was was using both
31:08AI and VFX to sort of fill out that field of view, which was a challenge.
31:15But it makes you feel like you're in it.
31:17Oh, man.
31:18Do you ever?
31:19Yeah, it's going to be spectacular.
31:20But it's been a it's been a large library of love.
31:22But it is it's the same thing.
31:24Even when you're creating something brand new and it's not taking an existing, you know,
31:29film from 1939, it's a very, very big technological challenge to do it correctly, to do it in
31:36a way where every one of those seats, you know, it's mapped in a way where when you're
31:40there, there's not a bad seat in the house.
31:42That's always the goal.
31:44So you have to keep that in mind when you're creating this material, because, you know,
31:48you're you're not doing it for just the center of this, you know, the center of the audience
31:52there.
31:52You've got an entire everyone, you know, bowl that you're filling and you want to make
31:57sure everybody thinks that that experience was the best thing that they've ever had.
32:01Yeah.
32:01And I know you've you've both touched on this throughout the conversation about sound and
32:06how that is also a unique challenge because of the spherical shape.
32:11So can you walk me through how you tackle that challenge?
32:15Sure.
32:15I mean, sphere immersive sound is laser pointed sound.
32:19So no matter where you are in the venue, you're getting that same quality of sound like
32:25nowhere else.
32:27But it is different.
32:28The number of speakers in the venue are what's a large number?
32:32One hundred and sixty thousand.
32:33Okay, I was close.
32:35So it is also the speakers themselves are behind the media plans.
32:40So now they are behind the artist, which is different for an artist to play in the venue.
32:45So that's why they have to do the in-ears.
32:47Yeah, absolutely.
32:48Yeah.
32:48Okay.
32:49And so but although there's not a bad seat in the house, if you're going to sphere
32:53to watch a show, where ideally would you want to be?
32:57If you watch a show in sphere, if you have the experience on the floor versus the 200 series,
33:02300 series, four inches, you will have you have seen a different show each and every time.
33:06It is a different experience depending on where you are in the house.
33:10That's why when people come back, a lot of times they'll try to sit somewhere else.
33:15Like Dead and Cell was a great example where you had the people on the floor and then they
33:17wanted to be in the 200s and then they come back and they want to be in the 300s because
33:21it is a different show.
33:22I don't know that it's better or worse.
33:24It's just different.
33:25It's just different.
33:26Yeah.
33:26Interesting.
33:27And do you have a lot of people that come back to the sphere to see the same show over
33:31and over again?
33:32It sounds like Dead and Company is like a classic.
33:34Yeah.
33:34Correct.
33:35Kind of a given.
33:36Same with fish.
33:36It's just the same with everybody.
33:38Yeah.
33:38I think you're, I mean, we haven't done all the data from Backstreet Boys, but there were
33:43definitely repeats for that as well.
33:45Wow.
33:46Yeah.
33:46Anecdotally, just by the people we knew.
33:48Yeah.
33:50Yeah.
33:51Yeah.
33:51I mean, it definitely, it doesn't hurt that, first of all, Vegas is such a destination.
33:56People are already going there on vacation or, I mean, I'm sure there's locals who also
33:59want to come as well, but it's also very close to Los Angeles where all of the music
34:05stuff is happening.
34:07But I know you guys are planning a sphere in Abu Dhabi, which is very interesting to me.
34:14Obviously, Abu Dhabi is very up and coming in the entertainment space.
34:17They're putting a lot of investment in there.
34:19What will be different about the Abu Dhabi sphere?
34:23It's going to be the same sphere as we have here.
34:26Exactly.
34:27Like all the same like dimensions and stuff.
34:29Yeah.
34:29It'll be the same as we have here.
34:32Will you also be booking that?
34:35We'll see.
34:37Because that is, you know.
34:40I know.
34:40We'll figure it out.
34:41We'll see.
34:41It's going to be great.
34:42We'll see.
34:43Yeah.
34:43Yeah.
34:43I imagine, although there's so much investment going into Abu Dhabi, it still will have the
34:49added challenge of getting artists who can perform to a 20,000.
34:53It's 20,000 cap.
34:54Yeah.
34:55It depends on the setup.
34:56But somewhere between 17 to 20.
34:59That far away.
35:01But yeah.
35:02Are there plans to expand beyond Abu Dhabi?
35:05Absolutely.
35:05We plan on building more spheres.
35:07We plan on building smaller size spheres for different markets.
35:11So if that comes to pass in the coming years, can some artists transfer the exact same show
35:18that they've already played in Vegas?
35:19Nope.
35:20Wow.
35:20I feel like that is very cost effective.
35:22It is.
35:23That's the idea.
35:24That's the idea.
35:25Yeah.
35:26Because I mean, yeah, the big challenge for Sphere, I imagine, is just the cost and the
35:30time and the effort.
35:31So yeah.
35:32What are some ways that you guys, beyond building spheres of all different shapes and sizes
35:37that are transferable, what are some other ways that Sphere,
35:41Sphere manages its costs?
35:43I do think that, again, it's a partnership.
35:46It's a partnership with each of these acts or the promoters that come into the building.
35:49But for us, every time we do something, we get better at it.
35:52We get smarter at it.
35:54And there's cost management that comes with that.
35:56A hundred percent.
35:57For sure.
35:57I mean, it's like anything else.
35:58You know, like we are a startup.
36:01Yeah.
36:01You know, and startups, as they operationalize, get smarter and more efficient.
36:06We're doing the same thing.
36:07Exactly.
36:08I am curious to learn from you guys what you think the mix will end up being as Sphere
36:15matures.
36:16What's the mix going to be between residencies, original content, sports, all of those different
36:24categories?
36:25We're going to do as much as we can.
36:27Yes.
36:27I kind of like the way we're approaching it now, to be honest, which I feel like, you
36:33know, we lead with what we think is going to work, right?
36:38And so when it comes to the live, you know, the live acts and when it comes to the original
36:45experiences or licensed experiences like was, you know, in terms of pre-existing content
36:50or the marquee events like the NHL draft, it's all about what we think works.
36:56If we think it's going to work there, we're going to try to make it happen.
36:59So the balance of it is, you know, it's part of the fun, but we also, you know, we're not
37:05struggling to fill the, you know, to fill it.
37:09Like it's more of the Tetris of how do we fit all of the great things that we have, you
37:15know, into a 365 day calendar.
37:19Yeah.
37:19Yeah.
37:20And one of the things that I report on a lot at Billboard is AI and how it will impact
37:24the music industry.
37:25And I am always fascinated as to how AI could aid or change the live music experience.
37:32Oh, yeah.
37:33I'm wondering, are there some things on the horizon that you're excited to play around
37:37with or find to be interesting?
37:39100%.
37:39Okay.
37:40We just had a meeting about it last week.
37:42Yeah.
37:43So the whole idea behind, you know, audio reactive content for the screen, right?
37:49Using Gen.ai to help us develop tools that where sound creates visuals.
38:00Interesting.
38:00So, so a lot of, a lot of that work is, it's being done in different areas.
38:06It hasn't, you know, and, and we, we toy with some of it a little bit with some of the
38:11tools, but the idea of being able to create an entire show and program that way is something
38:16we're working on.
38:17So we think about that all the time.
38:18Yeah.
38:18Yeah.
38:19I mean, tracing it back, do you think it would have even been possible to do what you're
38:23doing right now with these sphere residencies like 10, 15 years ago?
38:27Or is this exactly the right place, the right time where the technology caught up with the
38:31idea?
38:32The, the landscape has changed a lot from my perspective in terms of how people, you know,
38:40consume content at all and think about their entertainment dollars.
38:45You know, I, I think that in a, in an odd way, the pandemic gave a boost in the post pandemic
38:52world to live entertainment and communal experiences, you know?
38:58And so I, I think it's a hard question to answer because the world changed so much since
39:052020 that I don't know if it's, if it's part of what I, you know, what I see as this, you
39:13know, voracious appetite for what it is we're doing at sphere is a reflection of, you know,
39:19that post pandemic idea of, oh my God, I want to, I want to experience this with people.
39:25I want to be in, you know, in an environment where things feel tactile and real, um, or,
39:32you know, or if that would have happened anyway, I don't know.
39:35But I, I thinking back on the past 10 years in terms of just the content creation side
39:39of things, like there's always advancements in technology and tools and such and CG and,
39:43and whatnot.
39:44But I, I think that this experience, this immersive new medium, I think is a function of,
39:51you know, a lot of things.
39:52And one of which I think is people are just really missed that, you know, that idea of
39:57that live shared communal experience.
40:00And I think that that was, that, that, that sort of put a burst of energy behind this.
40:07Yeah.
40:07Yeah.
40:08I think that makes sense.
40:09And moving forward, do you imagine that there could come a day where a virtual artist could
40:16play sphere?
40:18Could be.
40:18That'd be, that'd be an interesting thing to book.
40:22I don't even know what, how that would work, but I don't know.
40:26We're, we'll figure it out though.
40:27Yeah.
40:27I feel like there's gotta be some sort of, you know, 2030 version of like the Tupac hologram.
40:33Yeah, exactly.
40:34There's gotta be something.
40:36That's right.
40:37But yeah, it could be a really interesting thing for estates.
40:40Um, did y'all see the ABBA voyage?
40:42Oh yeah.
40:43Totally.
40:43That was crazy.
40:45Um, that was one of those things where I went in and I have to admit, I, I was kind
40:48of like, okay.
40:49You thought it was going to be cheesy?
40:51Yeah.
40:51Yeah.
40:52I was like, I don't know about this, but I took a chance and I actually loved it.
40:55Yeah.
40:56Yeah.
40:56I saw a lot of potential in it.
40:57Yeah.
40:57I thought they did a really good job of balancing also that there were live musicians that were
41:02there to accompany these visuals.
41:05Cause I think that we, we all still want to go to a show and feel like the people are there.
41:09Correct.
41:09Even if there are bells and whistles as well.
41:11There has to be a live component or element to it.
41:14Absolutely.
41:15Yeah.
41:15It grounds it all.
41:16You know, there's something that grounds it.
41:18Yeah.
41:18I agree.
41:19And I mean, right now it seems like with Sphere, a lot of the artists that have done super
41:23well so far have been legacy acts.
41:26Has that been an intentional choice when you're booking or did it happen that way?
41:30Coincidentally.
41:31It happened that way, but you know, it's also those acts have immense following, um, and
41:37getting people out here, but I mean, we are going to continually try and change the genre
41:44of artists that are in the building.
41:46We want new, I mean, the same way you said with Backstreet Boys, where you're all these
41:49millennial women were, you know, in the house.
41:52Um, we want to make sure that, you know, it's for everybody.
41:56Okay.
41:56Before we head out, um, I always ask my guest to make me a playlist.
42:02And as part of making this playlist, there are three songs that you have to pick for
42:05me.
42:06So first song is a song you can no longer gatekeep.
42:09Second is a favorite throwback.
42:11And third is a guilty pleasure.
42:14So Jojo, I'm going to throw it to you.
42:17What is so hard?
42:19This is really hard.
42:20But the song you can no longer gatekeep.
42:21I don't know the pressure.
42:24Let's go to the next one.
42:25Okay.
42:26A favorite throwback.
42:28Superstition, Stevie Wonder.
42:29Oh, that's a good one.
42:30That's a perfect one.
42:31It just makes me happy.
42:32It is a good one.
42:34What about you?
42:34What's your favorite throwback?
42:36Probably like Billy Joel, Always a Woman.
42:38Oh, okay.
42:39I love that song.
42:40It's like the song that, you know, like you don't like, if it comes up in your, you know,
42:45in one of your plays, you don't, you don't press fast forward.
42:48You're not like, I'm going to advance past that one.
42:50I'm always like, I have to listen to.
42:52Yeah.
42:52And then a guilty pleasure.
42:54Or Teddy Swims, Lose Control.
42:56Oh, yeah.
42:58Yeah.
42:59That's a good one, too.
43:00I just love it.
43:01I mean, I'd have, like, I'm a little bit of a Swifty.
43:04Okay.
43:05So it's pretty much all of Taylor's albums.
43:08That's not guilty.
43:09I think there are millions of things.
43:10They're all a guilty pleasure.
43:12They're all a guilty pleasure.
43:14Yeah.
43:14But, like, it just depends, like, my mood, which era.
43:19Mood definitely has a lot to do with it.
43:20Yeah.
43:21You know, so, but yeah.
43:23Ah, geez.
43:23Yeah.
43:24I just, you know, I could pick a Taylor song.
43:25Circling back.
43:26I'm not going to let you off the hook for this one.
43:29What is a song you can no longer keep?
43:30I mean, I don't, like, I don't feel like I, every time, like, if I say to anybody, have
43:36you heard of this artist?
43:36Everyone's always heard of the artist.
43:38So it's, like, I always feel like I'm behind everybody else on this stuff.
43:41Behind the time.
43:41Right.
43:42I'm always slightly behind the times.
43:44Like, there's a country artist, because I'm pretty eclectic with my music stuff.
43:48Yeah.
43:48Right?
43:48But there's a country artist that, Mark McNown?
43:53Okay.
43:54Same questions, I think it is.
43:55And every time I've heard the song.
43:57But it's, like, really good.
43:58And I was, like, who is this guy?
44:00And he's been around.
44:01I mean, everybody's, nobody's an overnight sensation in music, right?
44:04Everybody feels like, oh, my God, suddenly they have a hit song.
44:06And everyone's like, oh, yeah, they just hit the scene.
44:09And meanwhile, that artist has been toiling for a decade.
44:11Yes.
44:12So I'm sure people know that artist.
44:14But, yeah.
44:15I didn't.
44:16So I'm going to have to look.
44:17Same questions.
44:18Yeah.
44:18The song's called Same Questions.
44:20Well, on that note, we are good to go.
44:22Thank you so much for coming.
44:24All right.
44:25That's today's show.
44:26A special thank you to Josephine Baccarello and Carolyn Blackwood.
44:29And to The Sphere for hosting us today.
44:32And now it is time for the news.
44:34So I'm going to throw it back to Los Angeles, where we will run down the top music business
44:38stories this week.
44:39I am back in our L.A. studio to tell you about what's going on on the Billboard Hot 100 chart
44:44for the week of September 20th.
44:47Justin Bieber's Daisies is back in the top ranks this week at number 10.
44:52Love Me Not by R&B singer Raven Linnae falls to number 9.
44:56The K-pop Demon Hunters craze continues this week as How It's Done by Huntrix rises to the
45:03number 8 slot.
45:05Morgan Wallen and Tate McRae's country pop crossover What I Want sticks at number 7.
45:12Tears by Sabrina Carpenter falls to number 6.
45:15Saadja Boy's Soda Pop lands at number 5 this week.
45:23And another Saadja Boy's song, Your Idol, is in the fourth position.
45:27Man Child by Sabrina Carpenter climbs to number 3.
45:35Ordinary by Alex Warren continues at number 2 again this week.
45:41And finally, the number 1 song of the week is Golden by Huntrix.
45:46It's the fifth week that the K-pop Demon Hunters track is in the top slot.
45:51That's all we got for you today.
45:53Thank you so much for tuning in to On the Record, a production of Billboard and Sickbird Productions.
45:58I'm your host, Kristen Robinson.
45:59And if you enjoyed today's show, please give us a rating, give us a follow, a like, a subscribe,
46:04all of those things.
46:05As a new show, it's very helpful to get our episodes out there.
46:08And with that, I will see you all next week.
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