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St. Mudphud's avatar

Interesting! I had no idea that the “When Harry Met Sally” argument was preceded by Tolkien!

From personal experience relating to the opposite sex, with its hurts and confusions, I am inclined to agree with his perspective and your line of reasoning. However, I latch onto his wiggle words: “virtually impossible” and “can’t be counted on”. Ultimately, I will have to respectfully disagree with your conclusion that it *is* impossible full-stop for men and women to be friends.

As a “black swan” counter-example, take the friendship of St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa of Avila. As far as we can tell from the historical record, they were “just friends” for the entirety of their relationship - https://carmelitesistersocd.com/2015/stteresaandstjohnofthecross/

How? Well, what is friendship? Aquinas, building off Aristotle, defines it as “mutual benevolent love on a common ground, and has as its normal rule, unselfishness”. http://catholicapologetics.info/morality/general/friends.htm

Now this unselfish love, this Agape, flows from our relationship with God, in that God is Love. So the closer we are to God, the better able we are to relate to everyone, men and women, in an unselfish way.

Now, both saints were giants in their depth of mystical friendship with God, and so for them, their friendship was built on that mutual depth of Love of God and their common ground of desiring to reform the Carmelite Order (though Teresa had to convince John to stay first).

I completely agree with you in the difficulty of the endeavor - as far as I know, St. John and St. Teresa are the only example among the saints. It *is* fraught with difficulty; it is *virtually* impossible.

But they demonstrate that it isn’t impossible on principle. I think we can all learn from their example.

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WeepingWillow's avatar

There does seem to be some inescapable pull that makes platonic friendship between men and women difficult, I've seen it first hand when a woman I was close friends with professed that she had fallen in love with me. I felt terrible rejecting her but the feelings were not mutual.

Friendships between men and women are often amongst those who share similar interests, which often doesn't necessarily result in romantic attraction because it seems to me we are spiritually/sexually attracted to balancing and complementary/yin yang physical and metaphysical traits in our partners.

Extremes on the spectrums tend to attract the opposing extreme (really feminine women tend to end up with really masculine men, whereas those more in the middle tend to end up together.)

The modern western world and the workplace really complicates things because for most people, hanging out with members of the opposite sex who were not family or spouse would have been/is a rarity.

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