Sorry, but your issue description is filled with speculation about how "people" don't understand certain language concepts. I don't want to participate in those speculations, nor do I find them relevant for this project.

I'd like to close this issue.

@derrabus So you understand this language concept differently? Please elaborate.

Also I would have thought twice before creating this issue if Nicolas hadn't added this comment I remember until today. Taking into account his authority I think there must be something to this topic.

btw. I'm not surprised you voted "no" because I saw many private readonly properties in doctrine/dbal for example.

Please elaborate.

No.

No.

So please delete your previous comment if you don't want to take a part in the discussion.

P.S. I'm sorry to say that but from all the core team members that I respect and like, you are the one that I place in "not so kind" box. If I had to point one person from the core team that needs to work on personal skills I would point you. And I'm saying this based on watching your communication with community since you became a core team member.

No.

So please delete your previous comment

I will do no such thing. I think I made clear why I disapproved of your opening comment and that disapproval will stay for the record.

P.S. I'm sorry to say that but from all the core team members that I respect and like, you are the one that I place in "not so kind" box. If I had to point one person from the core team that needs to work on personal skills I would point you. And I'm saying this based on watching your communication with community since you became a core team member.

I don't know why you feel like you need to take this to the personal level here. Also, I don't think that your personal feelings towards me are relevant for the topic that you allegedly wanted to discuss.

That being said, I do support the initiative to…

Establish Symfony coding standards for private readonly properties and readonly classes

I believe we need some kind of guidelines on when and how we want to use readonly in this codebase. So, if someone were to start a discussion on this topic in a respectful and objective way, I'm sure I'd participate in that discussion.

private readonly properties don't make sense

i like we cant reset/mutate services/deps.. whats wrong with that?

i like we cant reset/mutate services/deps.. whats wrong with that?

What is the thing is a trade off. How many times in you life have you overwritten a private property that you haven't supposed to? I've been in PHP world for many years and I've never heard about such a mistake. Also haven't seen a single person asking for feature to protect against overriding private properties. Thus a question is whether we want having all the codebase with readonly keyword everywhere or it's an uncecessary noise that doesn't bring much value if any.

For me marking private property as readonly is like setting a password on a password, where private is the first password (nobody but me can set this property) and readonly is the second password (even though it's private I will add another level of security to protect from myself so I don't set it twice by accident).

Take in mind that the Symfony Code of Conduct is in effect to GitHub issues. This is no place for (unconstructive) personal attacks to anybody, we're having a purely technical discussion.

I personally don't feel the need for a strict standard here. Things like this can be decided on a case-by-case basis.

I also can't remember Nicolas comment nor do I see a reference to it. What would the downsides of going with readonly properties?

@wouterj I hope this note about Code of Conduct was directed to derrabus who first violated the CoC.

Things like this can be decided on a case-by-case basis.

I don't think the readonly keyword next to the private property is case-by-case specific. This is a standard or not. I also don't think this is something that developers keep an eye on when doing code reviews so it will end up being a mess eventually.

I also can't remember Nicolas comment

I have finally found this comment and even second comment. Issue description updated.

What would the downsides of going with readonly properties?

I think I've explained this in issue description and in this comment #57602 (comment)

The comments tell us that they don't add enough value to make it worth fighting merge conflicts for 2 years. So changing existing properties is probably something we don't want.

However, I don't see any arguments for not adding this to new properties/code.

Personally, I only see a personal attack from you in this issue. Alexander merely stated that he is against this issue and doesn't want to elaborate on that (which is in his full rights).
But if you feel like the CoC is violated, these matters can be handled through the CARE team and not through an attack in the comments.

To further support this, the first hit in the search result is a property introduced by Nicolas: https://github.com/symfony/symfony/pull/48642/files#diff-b24b2d134d203cc7851340a7155af5639befdbe019fcf3bcd8bcf270b1122254R26

So I think our general stance is yes for new properties, no for existing properties (which we may change once all support branches require PHP 8.1+).

To further support this, the first hit in the search result is a property introduced by Nicolas:

Yes, I have seen that. If you look at the code review in that PR you will find out why Nicolas added readonly and how he commented on that (the emoji is essential) #48642 (comment).
Let's wait until tomorrow as Nicolas seems not to work on the weekends and I'm really curious what his statment will be on this discussion.

Going further, at least 6 different core team members introduced readonly private properties: #48362, #54432, #47112, #51169, #54589, #50112

But sure, let's leave this open for a bit longer to see if other core team members want to confirm the opinion.

I'm not comfortable with this issue at all. It makes things way too personal. My supposed authority is not an argument on its own. And derrabus just stated his opinion - then you made it personal.

On the topic itself: I don't like readonly props because they are flawed by design (or at least too many think they provide immutability, while that's just false). But they do have merits, so in the end: I don't care. It would be just me, I wouldn't use them much. And also: it would be just me, Symfony wouldn't be as great.

In short: I have other topics more important to care about and given the polemic nature of such topics (not to say the general tone of the discussion), I wouldn't like to enforce any rule on the specific issue of private readonly.

I agree. Let's close here then.

Again, please follow through the CARE team if you think action is required. I'll lock down this issue to prevent any more deviation from the technical discussions that need to happen on GitHub.