Hi,
Definitely don't link from matplotlib. This was a fun hack put together to
get people talking about re-styling -- success!
I have to echo Chris' disappointment about the discussion of defaults in
MPL. While there are certainly many subjective elements of style and
design, there are also a number of rules that the default settings violate
(as Chris mentions below). The way I interpret the push-back to replacing
the defaults is: "there are too many better alternatives that we will never
agree upon, so let's just keep what's there." To 0th order, just pick one!
Fixing the few things that Chris mentions below will go a long way to
modernizing the MPL feel and experience. There many other things I would
like to change about the defaults, but maybe the right thing to do is just
issue a pull request so we can discuss on there?
As a longer term idea, I propose:
- normalize what can and can't be modified with an rc file -- right now,
it's kind of all over the place
then:
- each plot in the matplotlib gallery should have a drop-down menu with
~3-5 style options
- these options can be named or whatever, but should be complete
matplotlibrc files that can either be a) shipped with matplotlib, or b)
very easily downloaded and installed (think:
matplotlib.rc_install('name-of-style'))
- on each gallery entry page, selecting an option from the drop-down should
show the same plot made with the specified rc style
I'm happy to help implement this stuff, but I think this would be a
tremendous resource to the community.
And if you decide to reject everything from this email, *please* at least
change the default colormap :) #downwithJet
- Adrian
From: Chris Beaumont <[email protected]>
> Date: Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 5:47 PM
> Subject: Re: Plot or Not: voting to create better matplotlibrc
> To: [email protected]
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I thought I'd chime in on this discussion -- Adrian Price-Whelan and I put
> together plotornot during the SciPy sprints.
>
> I wouldn't advocate for linking to plotornot from matplotlib -- the idea
> is semi tongue-in-cheek, and meant to gauge to what extent there is
> consensus about plot styles. It's not set up to teach about rcParams, nor
> does it systematically explore all possible styles. The votes (>10K, last I
> checked) are saved, and eventually Adrian or I will look over the feedback
> and report back to you all. I haven't had time for that yet. I hope the
> name didn't *actually* offend anyone.
>
> At the risk of sounding unappreciative of MPL (which I love, and rely upon
> daily), I must admit I was disheartened after hearing the MPL devs at SciPy
> discuss styles and defaults. I understand that you don't want to change the
> default styles without a clearly better alternative. I also understand
> that, to some extent, style preferences are subjective. However, there
> seemed to be quite a bit of resistance to the idea that MPL defaults should
> change *at all.*
>
> Even if you ignore the subjective component of this (which I think is a
> mistake, since in my experience there is broad consensus that projects like
> ggplot2, d3, tableau, and spotfire do a "better" job than MPL at styling),
> there are some well-established visual principles that matplotlib violates.
> Some of my biggest pet peeves are:
>
> 1) The default 'axes.color_cycle' values should be equally visible, with
> similar luminance values. The current defaults (bgrcmyk) do not have this
> property -- c and y are harder to see, and thus carry less visual emphasis.
> A color table like the "Dark2" color brewer table (
> http://learnr.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/colours-dark2.png,
> colorbrewer2.org) is more uniform, and carefully designed for visibility
> and contrast. 'rgbcmyk' is clearly an arbitrary choice -- why not use a
> smarter default?
>
> 2) The default 'jet' colormap for images has a lot of poor properties
> (which is even mentioned on the MPL docs at
> http://matplotlib.org/api/pyplot_summary.html#id1). The brain is bad at
> ordering changes in hue (which is bigger -- purple or yellow?), and better
> at ordering changes in intensity or saturation. A colleague of mine
> designed a visualization tool for doctors, and found that the rainbow color
> table had a dramatic negative effect on the effectiveness of the tool (you
> can watch her TED talk about this at
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kU7veyGGps4&t=440s). The jet default is
> especially frustrating, since it *cannot* be modified via rcParams
>
> 3) Some of the defaults violate Tufte principles like minimizing "chart
> junk." For example, the 'stepfilled' mode for hist is probably better than
> the default, which draws vertical lines between every bin. Those lines make
> the histogram noisier -- do they convey any extra information? Again, this
> can't be tweaked via rcParams.
>
> Sorry for being long-winded -- I just want to make the case that this is
> an important (and not *entirely* subjective) issue. If nothing else, it
> would be great to see some clear statement about where the MPL devs stand
> on this issue -- what criteria must be met to consider a change to the
> defaults? My apologies if such a document already exists somewhere!
>
> Cheers,
> Chris Beaumont
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 3:03 PM, <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Send Matplotlib-devel mailing list submissions to
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>>
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>> than "Re: Contents of Matplotlib-devel digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Plot or Not: voting to create better matplotlibrc
>> (Eric Firing)
>> 2. Re: How to use STIX fonts in matplotlib plots? (Eric Firing)
>> 3. Re: Plot or Not: voting to create better matplotlibrc
>> (Benjamin Root)
>> 4. Re: How to use STIX fonts in matplotlib plots? (Benjamin Root)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 08:20:11 -1000
>> From: Eric Firing <[email protected]>
>> Subject: Re: [matplotlib-devel] Plot or Not: voting to create better
>> matplotlibrc
>> To: [email protected]
>> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> On 2013/07/20 4:18 AM, David P. Sanders wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > Probably many of you know about "Plot or Not", a site where we vote on
>> > the same plot presented in different ways, to get feedback about better
>> > matplotlibrc params:
>> >
>> > http://warm-escarpment-9042.herokuapp.com/
>> >
>> > It seems to me an absolutely fantastic idea! I think many people do not
>> > realise how fantastic the plots can look with some of this modern
>> > styling. (Styling was mentioned several times at SciPy.)
>> >
>> > Would it be possible to put a link to this site on the matplotlib web
>> > page and encourage people to use it?
>>
>> David,
>>
>> Interesting, but I'm not sure this is a good approach. I really don't
>> see the point of the voting. What I think would be more useful would be
>> a set of matplotlibrc files with examples of their effect on at least a
>> few plot types.
>>
>> >
>> > Definitely time to update the defaults!!
>>
>> Or maybe include a representative set of rcParams combinations to make
>> it easier for people to choose a design that suits their purpose. This
>> could be part of a toolkit.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>> >
>> > Best wishes,
>> > David.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Dr. David P. Sanders
>> >
>> > Profesor Titular "A" / Associate Professor
>> > Departamento de F?sica, Facultad de Ciencias
>> > Universidad Nacional Aut?noma de M?xico (UNAM)
>> >
>> > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>> > http://sistemas.fciencias.unam.mx/~dsanders
>> > <http://sistemas.fciencias.unam.mx/%7Edsanders>
>> >
>> > Cub?culo / office: #414, 4o. piso del Depto. de F?sica
>> > Tel.: +52 55 5622 4965
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > See everything from the browser to the database with AppDynamics
>> > Get end-to-end visibility with application monitoring from AppDynamics
>> > Isolate bottlenecks and diagnose root cause in seconds.
>> > Start your free trial of AppDynamics Pro today!
>> >
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48808831&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Matplotlib-devel mailing list
>> > [email protected]
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 08:55:37 -1000
>> From: Eric Firing <[email protected]>
>> Subject: Re: [matplotlib-devel] How to use STIX fonts in matplotlib
>> plots?
>> To: [email protected]
>> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> On 2013/07/20 4:41 AM, David P. Sanders wrote:
>> > I find the default font used in matplotlib horrible. We should be able
>> > to do much better these days.
>>
>> Which font is being used as default on your installation? And what are
>> the characteristics that earn the rating of "horrible"?
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 14:58:12 -0400
>> From: Benjamin Root <[email protected]>
>> Subject: Re: [matplotlib-devel] Plot or Not: voting to create better
>> matplotlibrc
>> To: Eric Firing <[email protected]>
>> Cc: matplotlib development list
>> <[email protected]>
>> Message-ID:
>> <CANNq6F=pdWohTRYLqEkG3oy6VoWYJ=
>> [email protected]>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> >From discussions with others at SciPy, we found ourselves disagreeing on
>> what default we would want. We also weren't sure exactly which params were
>> the ones that people tended to change. We have zero data on this. This
>> site
>> is intended to help start that data collection process.
>>
>> We can certainly improve this site to collect other kinds of info, but
>> this
>> is just a start. One could also view this as a launching point for
>> teaching
>> how to use rcParams (sorry David, i kinda like that name) in mpl. You all
>> know I never let a good teaching moment go to waste!
>>
>> As for linking from matplotlib.org, I am ambivalent. It is a bit
>> gimmicky,
>> and I do worry about being counterproductive to efforts in SciPy to be
>> more
>> inclusive of women (given the rather anti-feministic undertones of the
>> site
>> we are parodying). Of course, that could just be me being overly cautious.
>>
>> Cheers!
>> Ben Root
>> On Jul 20, 2013 2:20 PM, "Eric Firing" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > On 2013/07/20 4:18 AM, David P. Sanders wrote:
>> > > Hi,
>> > >
>> > > Probably many of you know about "Plot or Not", a site where we vote on
>> > > the same plot presented in different ways, to get feedback about
>> better
>> > > matplotlibrc params:
>> > >
>> > > http://warm-escarpment-9042.herokuapp.com/
>> > >
>> > > It seems to me an absolutely fantastic idea! I think many people do
>> not
>> > > realise how fantastic the plots can look with some of this modern
>> > > styling. (Styling was mentioned several times at SciPy.)
>> > >
>> > > Would it be possible to put a link to this site on the matplotlib web
>> > > page and encourage people to use it?
>> >
>> > David,
>> >
>> > Interesting, but I'm not sure this is a good approach. I really don't
>> > see the point of the voting. What I think would be more useful would be
>> > a set of matplotlibrc files with examples of their effect on at least a
>> > few plot types.
>> >
>> > >
>> > > Definitely time to update the defaults!!
>> >
>> > Or maybe include a representative set of rcParams combinations to make
>> > it easier for people to choose a design that suits their purpose. This
>> > could be part of a toolkit.
>> >
>> > Eric
>> >
>> > >
>> > > Best wishes,
>> > > David.
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Dr. David P. Sanders
>> > >
>> > > Profesor Titular "A" / Associate Professor
>> > > Departamento de F?sica, Facultad de Ciencias
>> > > Universidad Nacional Aut?noma de M?xico (UNAM)
>> > >
>> > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>> > > http://sistemas.fciencias.unam.mx/~dsanders
>> > > <http://sistemas.fciencias.unam.mx/%7Edsanders>
>> > >
>> > > Cub?culo / office: #414, 4o. piso del Depto. de F?sica
>> > > Tel.: +52 55 5622 4965
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > See everything from the browser to the database with AppDynamics
>> > > Get end-to-end visibility with application monitoring from AppDynamics
>> > > Isolate bottlenecks and diagnose root cause in seconds.
>> > > Start your free trial of AppDynamics Pro today!
>> > >
>> >
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48808831&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Matplotlib-devel mailing list
>> > > [email protected]
>> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > See everything from the browser to the database with AppDynamics
>> > Get end-to-end visibility with application monitoring from AppDynamics
>> > Isolate bottlenecks and diagnose root cause in seconds.
>> > Start your free trial of AppDynamics Pro today!
>> >
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48808831&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Matplotlib-devel mailing list
>> > [email protected]
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel
>> >
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 15:03:20 -0400
>> From: Benjamin Root <[email protected]>
>> Subject: Re: [matplotlib-devel] How to use STIX fonts in matplotlib
>> plots?
>> To: "David P. Sanders" <[email protected]>
>> Cc: matplotlib development list
>> <[email protected]>
>> Message-ID:
>> <CANNq6Fm0Oz=
>> [email protected]>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> David,
>>
>> IIRC, we were just starting to investigate how to produce retina graphics.
>> Perhaps you might be able to help Mike D and Michael de Hoon with there
>> efforts because very few of us have retina displays.
>>
>> Cheers!
>> Ben Root
>> On Jul 20, 2013 10:43 AM, "David P. Sanders" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > I find the default font used in matplotlib horrible. We should be able
>> to
>> > do much better these days.
>> >
>> > One very interesting option, at least for standard (paper) publishing,
>> is
>> > the STIX fonts, which is a Times-like font set promoted by several
>> > publishers.
>> >
>> > There are various options in matplotlib, such as
>> > matplotlib.rcParams["mathtext.fontset"], which allow the option "stix",
>> > but I have not been able to get it to work. Can anybody please help me
>> with
>> > this -- what is required?
>> >
>> > I have the STIX otf or ttf installed on my Mac, but I don't seem to
>> manage
>> > to get the LaTeX versions installed -- installing LaTeX fonts is *so*
>> > disgusting (is there some helper script for that?).
>> >
>> > Thanks and best wishes,
>> > David.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Dr. David P. Sanders
>> >
>> > Profesor Titular "A" / Associate Professor
>> > Departamento de F?sica, Facultad de Ciencias
>> > Universidad Nacional Aut?noma de M?xico (UNAM)
>> >
>> > [email protected]
>> > http://sistemas.fciencias.unam.mx/~dsanders
>> >
>> > Cub?culo / office: #414, 4o. piso del Depto. de F?sica
>> >
>> > Tel.: +52 55 5622 4965
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > See everything from the browser to the database with AppDynamics
>> > Get end-to-end visibility with application monitoring from AppDynamics
>> > Isolate bottlenecks and diagnose root cause in seconds.
>> > Start your free trial of AppDynamics Pro today!
>> >
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48808831&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Matplotlib-devel mailing list
>> > [email protected]
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel
>> >
>> >
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> See everything from the browser to the database with AppDynamics
>> Get end-to-end visibility with application monitoring from AppDynamics
>> Isolate bottlenecks and diagnose root cause in seconds.
>> Start your free trial of AppDynamics Pro today!
>>
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=48808831&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Matplotlib-devel mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/matplotlib-devel
>>
>>
>> End of Matplotlib-devel Digest, Vol 86, Issue 17
>> ************************************************
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ************************************
> Chris Beaumont
> Graduate Student
> Institute for Astronomy
> University of Hawaii at Manoa
> 2680 Woodlawn Drive
> Honolulu, HI 96822
> www.ifa.hawaii.edu/~beaumont
> ************************************
>
>
>
> --
> ************************************
> Chris Beaumont
> Graduate Student
> Institute for Astronomy
> University of Hawaii at Manoa
> 2680 Woodlawn Drive
> Honolulu, HI 96822
> www.ifa.hawaii.edu/~beaumont
> ************************************
>
--
Adrian M. Price-Whelan ~ Columbia University ~ http://adrian.pw
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Isolate bottlenecks and diagnose root cause in seconds.
Start your free trial of AppDynamics Pro today!
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