<phillipp> master phillipp is here :P
<carsonfull> here
<slick0> pong
<Bopp1> pong
<gawainlynch> OK… so while we with for the others… any good jokes?
<rarila> peng
<SahAssar> pong
<gawainlynch> Bopp: You saw my comment on #5123 
-[BoltIssueBall]/#boltcms- #5123 [open] Fixes for {{ dump() }} https://github.com/bolt/bolt/pull/5123 
<gawainlynch> carsonfull & Rix are working on #5125
-[BoltIssueBall]/#boltcms- #5125 [open] Cleaner pager manager factory with resolving Pimple warning https://github.com/bolt/bolt/pull/5125 
<Bopp1> gawainlynch: Yes, should have green lights in 10 minutes :-)
<gawainlynch> #5115 just needs an update from Rix
-[BoltIssueBall]/#boltcms- #5115 [open] Fix domain cookie value with http port https://github.com/bolt/bolt/pull/5115 
* Notify: Bopp is online (FreeNode).
<gawainlynch> Others are all mixed
<gawainlynch> OK… bopp {{ fields() }}
<slick0> woah woah, there was aa #5111?
-[BoltIssueBall]/#boltcms- #5111 [closed] [BUG] URLs in admin menu https://github.com/bolt/bolt/issues/5111 
<bopp> #5120 is GTG, i think ;-)
-[BoltIssueBall]/#boltcms- #5120 [open] Clarify the _sub_fields.twig defaults file. https://github.com/bolt/bolt/pull/5120 
<gawainlynch> SahAssar: {{ fields() }}
<bopp> ok, fields. 
<bopp> https://docs.bolt.cm/master/fields-tag <- docs here. 
<SahAssar> that is still hidden behind magic and not accessible
<bopp> Everything is changeable, it is documented, and less "black magic" than it was in 2.3
* SahAssar on phone btw
<gawainlynch> Phone vs Flakey WIFI … who's going to win this one
<bopp> And it adds the same things for templatefields and repeaters, which 2.3 didn't 
<carsonfull> What same things?
<SahAssar> everything is changable except when using the normal files that arent overwritten on upgrade
<bopp> I'm not saying fields() is perfect, i just think another solution would be more confusing
<bopp> SahAssar: they are, if you stick to theme_defaults
<carsonfull> What's the problem though?
<gawainlynch> carsonfull: OK… so the debate is in regard to `{{ fields() }}`
<carsonfull> Duh
<bopp> and, that's good, because a _lot_ of crappy templates in the extension store use a crummy copy of the record.twig, with all the junk in it, and they break on updates
<carsonfull> What's the problem fields() is trying to solve?
<SahAssar> #5077 summarizes part of the debate
-[BoltIssueBall]/#boltcms- #5077 [closed] [RFC] improvements for basetheme - add a showcase.twig to base-2016 https://github.com/bolt/bolt/issues/5077 
<rossriley> sorry I’m here too
<gawainlynch> Oh… context… there you are!
<gawainlynch> ;-)
<bopp> The problem it solves is described here: https://docs.bolt.cm/master/fields-tag
<bopp> read that
<phillipp> context is not defined
<rarila> From what I read there fields() could be useful for development as dump()
<bopp> Like I said: I don't think it's perfect, it's just that all other things i could think of where more crappy than this
<bopp> the 'record.twig' as we had in 2.3 was a disaster, we _need_ to get rid of that
<phillipp> its for simple data output, issue closed! xD
<gawainlynch> Yes, the contention is its use in the base theme
<SahAssar> phillipp: if it is it shouldnt be in base)20XX
<carsonfull> Does anyone in practice use a generic record template? 
<bopp> But the base theme needs _something_
<bopp> carsonfull: tons of people
<phillipp> personally i wouldnt use it in one of my own sites but its good when you publish a theme
<gawainlynch> Unfortunately… it happens
<bopp> carsonfull: I've seen people use 'record.twig' for all contenttypes on a site
* gawainlynch so doesn't still use base 2012 Bolt templates ;-)
<gawainlynch> Ouch
<SahAssar> bopp: does dields help that?
<bopp> SahAssar: yes. 
<rarila> Could it help printing any warning in front of its output ala "Don't use this in production"?
<bopp> it's harder to break for the noob
<carsonfull> It's also harder to grok
<bopp> it gets updated on bolt updates, unless overridden by the user
<bopp> it's forward compatible
<bopp> no, i'd say it's easier
<bopp> the old one was REALLY an unaccessible blob of twig
<carsonfull> Totally agree
<bopp> at least this is a _documented_ blob of twig
<bopp> and, it can be ignored, if people don't need it
<SahAssar> it's impossible to grok if you don't know about theme-defaults
<bopp> SahAssar: read the FM, i'd say to those people
<rarila> … or style it in a way that nobody would even dare to use it in production?
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<carsonfull> I guess my problem is you just moved the huge blob out of record template and into another template
<carsonfull> What if I just want to change one field type?
* rixbeck arrived 
<bopp> And, once again, i'm not saying it's perfect, but it's better than what we had
<carsonfull> I still have to copy the ~150 line template
<SahAssar> rarila: still makes it less useful than record.twig. we need examples of how to use the fields that people can tinker with
<bopp> carsonfull: coming in 3.1
<phillipp> the thing is, people cant output their data in an easy way without messing with the old record template crap
<bopp> carsonfull: can't do that now, feature freeze
<carsonfull> Ok room for improvement. I can live with that
<bopp> carsonfull: in 3.1 you can do {% block field_iterator_image %} .. {% endblock %} to override a single one
<carsonfull> bopp: You are writing that?
<bopp> yes
<carsonfull> ok
<carsonfull> I'm fine then :)
<gawainlynch> SahAssar your take now?
<carsonfull> Make that happen with pager too and I'll buy you a beer
<SahAssar> i still think it makes bolt less accessible for frontenders
<bopp> I'd argue the exact opposite, still
<phillipp> i think its for people who just want to output their data
<phillipp> i saw many blogs who just use the base-2014 theme
<SahAssar> and i think it adds more magic where we dont need it
<phillipp> people who dont care about every single pixel
<bopp> yes, or for a _generic_ template, that won't break every 0.0.1 bolt update
<carsonfull> I'm all about having less code copied to specific installations that doesn't get updated 
<bopp> That this does, i'm sure. 
<carsonfull> I'm having a hard timing justifying that this is magic too
<SahAssar> bopp: any reason it's not a macro?
<carsonfull> ^ I would definitely argue for that though
<phillipp> btw, why do we discuss this now, AFTER the implementation? i mean, its there for weeks now and no one complained
<bopp> phillipp: tbh, people complained about it all the time ;-)
<phillipp> then do whatever you want :D
<carsonfull> phillipp: Because we all have lives and can't look at _every_ PR
<bopp> carsonfull: named parameters, mainly
<bopp> that's why it's not a macro
<carsonfull> bopp: Only works with functions?
<carsonfull> If so, I'm ok with that
<bopp> yes
<phillipp> damn, i have no life because i look at PRs? :(
<bopp> phillipp: focus, mate ;-)
<gawainlynch> OK… so I think that is enough in favour of fields() for 3.0
<carsonfull> As an interation forward I give it +1
<bopp> I'll enhance stuff for 3.1
<rossriley> +1 too
<bopp> +1 from me, for the record
<gawainlynch> carsonfull: #4095
-[BoltIssueBall]/#boltcms- #4095 [open] [Feature] Thumbnails/Uploads/FileManager with remote filesystems https://github.com/bolt/bolt/issues/4095  — assigned to CarsonF
<phillipp> +1
<gawainlynch> rarila: #5009
-[BoltIssueBall]/#boltcms- #5009 [open] [BUG] Can't delete a record from dashboard listing https://github.com/bolt/bolt/issues/5009  — assigned to rarila
<carsonfull> Ah crap
<SahAssar> a very strong -1 and in case it passes a strong plus one to reopen #5077
-[BoltIssueBall]/#boltcms- #5077 [closed] [RFC] improvements for basetheme - add a showcase.twig to base-2016 https://github.com/bolt/bolt/issues/5077 
<gawainlynch> I am totally behind that one
<bopp> but, a 'showcase' theme is _exactly_ what this is supposed to prevent
<bopp> SahAssar: what would the showcase do, that this doesnt' ?
<bopp> gawainlynch: mine or sahassars statement?
<SahAssar> bopp: but it's exactly what we need to show how to use and tweak field output
<bopp> SahAssar: nope, the past has shown that people are too laxy for that. 
<bopp> <lazy
<rarila> gawainlynch: didn't have time to check yet
<gawainlynch> bopp: Behind 5077 reopening… I am more thinking of giving people a way to access it
<bopp> they just copy/paste the entire chunk of broken twig into their own stuff. 
<gawainlynch> bopp: Yeah, you have a point on that one /guilty-look
<rarila> gawainlynch: but doesn't look like a big thing - gonna check tonight
<bopp> I've seen soooo many bolt installs break on update, because of copy/pasted crap from the record.twig
<gawainlynch> rarila: Thanks mate… just churning through them :-)
<SahAssar> if we break record.twig on minors we have larger issues
<bopp> SahAssar: it's happened a few times.
<bopp> like when we added templatefields
<bopp> or when geolocation changed.
<gawainlynch> Guys… calling a hands up on fields… we can debate ways forward over the coming week
<bopp> or when "image" got it's "title" 
<SahAssar> if we do that on minors then the issue is in core, not in the template
<bopp> SahAssar: slightly agree, but that happens. 
<bopp> .. which is why a forward facing solution is better than an "showcase.twig" that's _always_ behind the news
<gawainlynch> OK… so beta 2
<SahAssar> Bopp: oh, were going to contine ;)
<gawainlynch> I would like to hold off a bit longer… an few things a) being debated; b) bugs 
<bopp> This list had been growing over the last two weeks: https://github.com/bolt/bolt/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Blocking+release%22
<gawainlynch> Yeah… that's about to get a healthy attack after my little joyful message in the HiM TK channel today 
<carsonfull> That's fine with me too. I have stuff to fix on FS too
<gawainlynch> carsonfull: Yeah… #4095?
-[BoltIssueBall]/#boltcms- #4095 [open] [Feature] Thumbnails/Uploads/FileManager with remote filesystems https://github.com/bolt/bolt/issues/4095  — assigned to CarsonF
<bopp> #5084 is closed now
-[BoltIssueBall]/#boltcms- #5084 [closed] [bug] notices in frontend on first pageview after cache clear https://github.com/bolt/bolt/issues/5084  — assigned to bobdenotter
<[BoltGitHubBot]> [bolt] bobdenotter closed issue #5084: [bug] notices in frontend on first pageview after cache clear https://git.io/vajf5
<carsonfull> I still need to give it a full sweep to make sure everything is covered. But that's after I fix interating and directories with S3
<gawainlynch> bopp: What's your feel in b2?
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<bopp> oops. 
<gawainlynch> bopp: What's your feel in b2?
<bopp> hmm
<gawainlynch> *on
<bopp> I'd like to mark one or two as 'beta blockers', because they annoy me personally
<gawainlynch> bopp: Go for it
<gawainlynch> Lets just run with that and review as we goo
<bopp> ok. on it.
<gawainlynch> Anyone want anything more aired?
<gawainlynch> </meeting>
<bopp> one sec..
<bopp> argh. 
<bopp> :-)
<SahAssar> I'mma let yall finish, but i'm getting back in this when i get home 😊
<bopp> https://github.com/bolt/bolt/labels/Beta-blocker <- 5 issues. 
bopp> one sec..
<bopp> argh. 
<bopp> :-)
<SahAssar> I'mma let yall finish, but i'm getting back in this when i get home 😊
<bopp> https://github.com/bolt/bolt/labels/Beta-blocker <- 5 issues. 
<bopp> That seems like a reasonable list, right? Two of them have PR's in the queue
<phillipp> especially the last one, with the broken admin links bugs me :)
<gawainlynch> I don't object at all, but I don't think #5104 rates as a beta blocker… that said it should take me a few minutes, so shut-up, Gawain! 
-[BoltIssueBall]/#boltcms- #5104 [open] Assets queue doesn't filter duplicates anymore. https://github.com/bolt/bolt/issues/5104  — assigned to GawainLynch
<rixbeck> I'll fix the pager stuff as carsonfull suggested
<gawainlynch> Thanks mate
<bopp> #5063 is on rarila's plate, right? 
-[BoltIssueBall]/#boltcms- #5063 [open] [BUG] Dashboard settings menu broken links https://github.com/bolt/bolt/issues/5063  — assigned to GawainLynch
<gawainlynch> Nah… that's one of mine
<bopp> I can have a shot at #5124.
-[BoltIssueBall]/#boltcms- #5124 [open] Templates output `{{ dump() }}` when not logged in, and more. https://github.com/bolt/bolt/issues/5124 
<gawainlynch> Ugh… I must have had a line about that in-and-out of buffer so many damn times before
<carsonfull> bopp: Did you see my comment on that?
<gawainlynch> ^w^w^w
<bopp> carsonfull: don't recall
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<bopp> sorry!
<gawainlynch> It was not long before the meeting I think
<bopp> was eating :-)
<gawainlynch> bopp: OK… who signed for clearance on that one! :-D
<bopp> Unilateral BDFL.. ;-)
<gawainlynch> HAHA!
<bopp> anyhow, what's with the dump() issue?
<carsonfull> I don't think debug_show_loggedoff should override debug
<carsonfull> It should only override the logged in check
<bopp> carsonfull: Yes, that makes sense. 
<bopp> I'll update my PR in a bit. 
<gawainlynch> Yeah… sometimes you wan… ^w^w^w^w
<carsonfull> Cool
<bopp> :-)
<carsonfull> gawainlynch agrees :)