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PEP 788: Address feedback from first discussion round #4400

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PEP 788: Address feedback from first discussion round #4400

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@ZeroIntensity ZeroIntensity commented May 3, 2025 •
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  • Change is either:
    • To a Draft PEP
    • To an Accepted or Final PEP, with Steering Council approval
    • To fix an editorial issue (markup, typo, link, header, etc)
  • PR title prefixed with PEP number (e.g. PEP 123: Summary of changes)

The key changes I made here are:

  • Interpreter references now have a dedicated type (PyInterpreterRef and PyInterpreterWeakRef *).
  • Add PyThreadState_GetDaemon() and what needs to happen to threading for that to work.
  • Add a terminology section for clarification on what things like "finalization" refer to in the PEP.
  • Add a rejected idea for the previous approach (mainly using PyInterpreterState * for refs).
  • Add an open issue for PyThreadState_Ensure stealing a strong reference.
  • Editorial: Lots of clarity fixes (many had trouble understanding the PEP, unfortunately).
  • Editorial: Headings are now in title case ("The Apple is Weird and Confusing") rather than sentence case ("The apple is weird and confusing").

📚 Documentation preview 📚: https://pep-previews--4400.org.readthedocs.build/pep-0788/

@ZeroIntensity ZeroIntensity marked this pull request as ready for review May 4, 2025 17:55
@ZeroIntensity ZeroIntensity requested a review from vstinner as a code owner May 4, 2025 17:55
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@godlygeek I can't add you as a reviewer, but I'd appreciate your opinion on some of the new things I'm proposing here.

@ZeroIntensity ZeroIntensity requested a review from AA-Turner May 4, 2025 20:02
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Bump @AA-Turner @vstinner now that the beta is out. There's no rush considering we have a year until the 3.15 freeze, though.

vstinner
vstinner reviewed May 8, 2025
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peps/pep-0788.rst
Return a strong reference to an interpreter from a weak reference.

If the interpreter no longer exists or has already finished waiting for
non-daemon threads, then this function returns ``0``.
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Same remark than PyInterpreterState_AsStrong(), I would prefer an API like: int PyInterpreterWeakRef_AsStrong(PyInterpreterWeakRef *wref, PyInterpreterRef *ref).

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That's probably harder to use, though.

ZeroIntensity and others added 3 commits May 9, 2025 07:21
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Update peps/pep-0788.rst
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Co-authored-by: Victor Stinner <[email protected]>
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Update peps/pep-0788.rst
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Co-authored-by: Victor Stinner <[email protected]>
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Co-authored-by: Victor Stinner <[email protected]>
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vstinner commented May 9, 2025

I'm not comfortable with PyInterpreterRef and PyInterpreterWeakRef which are different: PyInterpreterRef is used as a scalar value, whereas PyInterpreterWeakRef is used as a pointer. I would prefer that both are scalars, or both are pointers. Maybe using a pointer API would be more future proof and it makes sure that the value (the pointer) can be stored ... in a pointer, for a callback argument.

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@AA-Turner AA-Turner Awaiting requested review from AA-Turner

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