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Explanation: The Confederacy was the side of the US Civil War which started a massive and bloody conflict in an attempt to preserve chattel slavery of Black folk in the Americas.
They lost. If there’s a hell, one hopes they’re ‘enjoying’ themselves.
Not really a history meme, this, but I get the sentiment.
Is the US Civil War not history?
Of course it is. This post is just more a rhetorical implement aimed at modern lost causers and run-of-the-mill racists than it is a meme about the historical US civil war in its own right. Which is fine; like I wrote, I get the sentiment.
correct. there are multiple people involved so it’s more theirstory
I’ve had to edit this for clarification.
I doubt the average soldier was vehemently racist to be honest, I know we think of it that way, but there were documented black soldiers for the Confederacy there voluntarily and I doubt they were fighting for slavery.
Sometimes people think are just protecting their way of life, fighting for their family, community, and their ideals and idea of loyalty.
Slavery is shit, fullest of full stops, but it’s just not going to be true to frame everyone who fights for a nation as so immoral to presume them all in Hell - if this were true then pretty much everyone in the US military would be across all conflicts as the US invites and is often the aggressor for a majority of conflict.
I doubt the average soldier was vehemently racist to be honest,
Bruh, the average soldier on both sides was racist. The Confederates exceptionally so; you see it in the journals of even common enlisted men who are, by and large, aware that they are fighting for slavery.
I know we think of it that way, but there were documented black soldiers for the Confederacy there voluntarily.
Black soldiers were not allowed to enlist for the Confederacy until two months before the end of the war. Most claims of Black soldiers on the Confederate side actually end up leading to enslaved men forced to accompany their enslavers or those they were rented out to. The only notable exception I can think of is that of the volunteer militia in New Orleans which included free men of color; this organization was rejected for service by the Confederacy, and is deeply rooted in the French rather than American Southern caste system in any case.
Sometimes people are just protecting their way of life. Slavery is shit, fullest of full stops, but it’s just not going to be true to frame them all as so immoral to presume them all in Hell.
People who willingly fight for the exclusive cause of overthrowing democracy in favor of racist chattel slavery are absolutely burning in hell, should there be such a thing.
People who willingly fight for the exclusive cause of overthrowing democracy in favor of racist chattel slavery are absolutely burning in hell, should there be such a thing.
I don’t believe that’s why most southerners fought. Perhaps a factor, but not the driving force.
Were they not convinced that their way of life and culture were under attack, beyond just having superiority over other races. Convinced by the elite that did own slaves and whipped into a frenzy, very much like today’s politics against taxation.
Additionally, while they were undoubtedly racist, it is unfortunately the case that most never had the opportunity to not be racist. Their friends were racist, their family were racist, their government was racist, they never knew anything else. Is it fair to condemn someone to hell because they were doing what they were taught is good and just? What seems obvious to us in 2025 is not so cut and dry to a person engulfed in racist culture against their will. And never given a fair opportunity to change.
My point being, saying they were all evil is reductive and shows a lack of empathy and understanding of human nature and undermines the true root causes of racism to hand-waving “oh theyre just evil” rather than getting to the heart of what makes someone hold those beliefs
I don’t believe that’s why most southerners fought. Perhaps a factor, but not the driving force.
So all of the people declaring that absolutely is why they were fighting at the time is… what?
Were they not convinced that their way of life and culture were under attack, beyond just having superiority over other races.
… that was their entire way of life. That was the difference between the American North and the American South. Racism in the North was widespread, but only incidental; it did not form a foundation for basic social relations. Racism in the South was an entire fucking caste system which dictated the position of all Black and white folk.
The American South, ~1830-1860, was a brutal plantation society run on an aristocratic caste system that defined social relations from top to fucking bottom.
Convinced by the elite that did own slaves and whipped into a frenzy, very much like today’s politics against taxation.
And if people took up arms to lower the tax rates of the rich, they would be fighting to lower the tax rates of the rich. Just like the Confederates willingly taking up arms to defend slavery were fighting to defend slavery.
Additionally, while they were undoubtedly racist, it is unfortunately the case that most never had the opportunity to not be racist. Their friends were racist, their family were racist, their government was racist, they never knew anything else.
The widespread presence of Southern Unionists, who believed in democracy enough to not TAKE UP ARMS IN DEFENCE OF SLAVERY’S SUPREMACY and the presence of Southern abolitionists suggests that they had other options than being a bootlicking piece of shit. There were racists and slavers, and racist slavers, who did not consider the issue of racist slavery vital enough to defy democracy or take up arms against their countrymen to preserve. This is a low fucking bar - but it is the real bar that one should consider someone raised in a racist society to be able to uphold. “Do not violate all of your other professed principles to uphold the worst of the ones you have been taught”
As I mentioned, the average soldier on both sides was racist by modern standards. But only one chose to fight for the high and noble purpose of [checks notes] defying democracy to preserve the supremacy and expansion of a system of racist chattel slavery.
Is it fair to condemn someone to hell because they were doing what they were taught is good and just?
Sure.
What seems obvious to us in 2025 is not so cut and dry to a person engulfed in racist culture against their will. And never given a fair opportunity to change.
Never given a fair opportunity to change? What was Reconstruction?
My point being, saying they were all evil is reductive and shows a lack of empathy and understanding of human nature and undermines the true root causes of racism to hand-waving “oh theyre just evil” rather than getting to the heart of what makes someone hold those beliefs
Understanding the root causes, and understanding that embracing racism as one’s highest virtue is evil, are not mutually exclusive positions.
You are conflating the officers and the politicians with the rank and file. They were separate groups with different reasons for fighting or not fighting. And again, you are reducing the motivations of humans to “they were evil racists” which is reductive and shortsighted. The history is significantly more nuanced and disregarding any analysis or holistic viewpoint is counterproductive to determining the true causes of such heinous acts.
The world isn’t black and white (no pun intended). There are causes and effects beyond just the surface level. People act out of complex interactions of culture, politics, economics, and community. Most likely in their minds they fought and died for more than racism.
And please, chill out a bit. I realize that what I’m suggesting isn’t popular and is filled with gray areas but I’m just trying to be a good person who empathizes with others so I can better understand their motives and hopefully better convince them of the flaws in their worldviews.
The rank and file knew what the fuck they were doing.
Stop trying to make these people look like children who couldn’t make up their own damn mind.
You are conflating the officers and the politicians with the rank and file.
I’m really fucking not. The journals of enlisted men in the Confederate Army back my assertion.
They were separate groups with different reasons for fighting or not fighting. And again, you are reducing the motivations of humans to “they were evil racists” which is reductive and shortsighted. The history is significantly more nuanced and disregarding any analysis or holistic viewpoint is counterproductive to determining the true causes of such heinous acts.
The world isn’t black and white (no pun intended). There are causes and effects beyond just the surface level. People act out of complex interactions of culture, politics, economics, and community. Most likely in their minds they fought and died for more than racism.
And please, chill out a bit. I realize that what I’m suggesting isn’t popular and is filled with gray areas but I’m just trying to be a good person who empathizes with others so I can better understand their motives and hopefully better convince them of the flaws in their worldviews.
Yeah, no, I put up with this because I thought you might be genuinely misinformed, but this is no better than Nazi apologia. Fuck off.
Considering the “States rights” they were fighting for were realted to slavery and the ability to reclaim slaves that fled north for freedom, just fuck off.
That’s a strawman, considering I never said states rights. I said fighting for their culture.
Also is that any way to have a discussion?
“I disagree with you so fuck you”
Really quite effective I’m convinced thank you
Lol, read the articles of secession.
You don’t even have good misinformation.
So a hearty fuck you!
Edit: fighting to persevere slavery is fucking shitty, so take your “civil conversation” and shove it because human right aren’t negotiable.
Holy racist apologism Batman!
Fuck you for trying to muddy the waters.
mate, that ain’t mud that’s spewing from his mouth into the water.
Well, my apologies for basing it on colour and consistency, I didn’t want to ger too close.
… basically everyone was racist then, but not the people laying their lives on the line to protect slavery? How high are you?
They weren’t racist, they just sacrificed their lives to protect the most racist institution in human history.
What next, nazis weren’t anti-semitic?
Yeah yeah nuance ofc – same with every single civil war. But even if not intentionally racist, racist by the fact they fought for the pro enslaving people side.
Your edits don’t make you sound any better.
I’m uncertain why, someone else explained some good thoughts here and was similarly down voted. I suspect a lack of empathy is part of why this is going poorly, most people online I interact with seem to have deeply impaired empathy.
We’re talking about an entirely different, period and place specific morality, with an entire society functioning around that framework. Objectively bad and the idea that all these people belong in Hell is absurd.
Obviously slavery is bad, but that’s only because we’ve come to understand these ideas, but on the same token, obviously slavery is bad for prisoners, but the US allows this, and many people even know about this and do not care - hopefully future generations don’t judge all of us as deserving Hell.
This country has elected an actual literal racist Bigfoot who is moving the country towards a white Christian nationalism, hopefully we are all not judged as evil racist nationalists, hopefully in the future, the entire American populace is not judged to belong in Hell.
Most people, of all eras adapt to what is normalized, including morally. I promise you and I, and everyone you know would operate from a different normalized moral framework, the only difference is I understand this.
Obviously slavery is bad, but that’s only because we’ve come to understand these ideas
I can think of a very large group of people who have always understood that slavery is bad, going back to antiquity: the slaves.
No sympathy for slavers, past, present or future.
https://piefed.social/comment/8601890
Seriously saying people who backed racist chattle slavery weren’t racist is myopic. Seriously you are repeating misinformation and today’s problems aren’t a way to lessen the damage of yester years.
So yeah, the southern soldiers were racist enough to enslave a particular group…
