CONFIDENTIAL

FLORIDA STATE UNIVERSITY

INVESTIGATIVE HEARING
BEFORE JUSTICE MAJOR HARDING

VOLUME II

DATE:

Wednesday December 3, 2014

TIME:

Commenced at 9:20 a.m.

Concluded at 4:10 p.m.

REPORTED BY:

Kimberly S. Bartholomew
Court Reporter

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

2894-A REMINGTON GREEN LANE
TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32308
(850)878-2221

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APPEARANCES:

Justice Major Harding

Hearing Officer
Ausley & McMullen
123 South Calhoun Street
Tallahassee, Florida 32301
Carolyn A. Egan, General Counsel
Panel Member
Florida State University
Suite 211, Westcott Building
222 South Copeland Street
Tallahassee, Florida 32306
Rachel Bukanc, Ed.D.
Assistant Dean/Director
Panel Member
Florida State University
282 Champions Ways
A4117 University Center
Tallahassee, Florida 32306
Robyn Blank Jackson
Associate General Counsel
Panel Member
Florida State University
Suite 424, Westcott Building
222 South Copeland Street
Tallahassee, Florida 32306
Tony Bajoczky, Jr., Esquire
Panel Member
Ausley & McMullen
123 South Calhoun Street
Tallahassee, Florida 32301

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GORDON & REES, LLP

W.M. David Cornwell, Sr., Esquire
Benjamin Levine, Esquire
The Pinnacle Building
3455 Peachtree Road, Suite 1500
Atlanta, Florida 30326
Advisors to Respondent
HUTCHINSON, BLACK & COOK, LLC
Baine Kerr, Esquire
John Clune, Esquire
921 Walnut Street, Suite 200
Boulder, Colorado 80302
Advisors to Complainant
Complainant
Respondent

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I N D E X

WITNESS

PAGE

Witness Four

Direct Examination by Justice Major Harding

102

Cross Examination by Complainant

106

Cross Examination by Respondent

109

Redirect Examination by Justice Major Harding

110

Recross Examination by Complainant

112

Witness Five

10

Direct Examination by Justice Major Harding

115

11

Cross Examination by Complainant

119

12

Officer Dinorah Harris

13

Direct Examination by Complainant

124

14

Cross Examination by Respondent

135

15

Witness Six

16

Direct Examination on behalf of Complainant

142

17

Cross Examination on behalf of Respondent

148

18

Redirect Examination by Complainant

148

20

Direct Examination by Complainant

150

21

Cross Examination by Respondent

157

23

Direct Examination by Complainant

159

24

Cross Examination by Respondent

166

19

22

25
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Officer Jason Newlin

Direct Examination by Respondent

173

Cross Examination by Complainant

193

4
5

Respondent
Direct Examination by Justice Major Harding

203

6
7

CLOSING STATEMENTS

PAGE

By Complainant

206

By Respondent

208

10
11
12

INDEX OF EXHIBITS

13

(Exhibits retained by Justice Harding)

14

CLAIMANT'S

DESCRIPTION

15

Exhibit 10

Questions to Respondent

16

(to be marked)

PAGE
203

17
18
19

RESPONDENT'S

DESCRIPTION

PAGE

20

Exhibit 6

Photograph

135

21

Exhibit 7

Photograph

137

22

Exhibit 8

Photograph

139

23

Exhibit 9

Statement of Respondent

200

24
25

CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
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214

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The following proceedings were had:

* * * * * * * * * *

JUSTICE HARDING:

MS. JACKSON:

5
6
7

We have two University witnesses

left this morning.

JUSTICE HARDING:

MS. JACKSON:

get them on the phone?

11

Wait.

Should we get them on

the phone so they will be advised, too?

10

Okay.

MR. KERR:

You're here.

Do you want me to

Yeah, they might as well listen in

to this.

12

MS. EGAN:

13

MS. JACKSON:

14

MS. EGAN:

15

MS. JACKSON:

Thank you.

16

COMPLAINANT:

Hello.

17

MS. JACKSON:

Good morning, it's Robyn.

18

Yeah, she should hear.

Okay.

Thanks, Robyn.

How

are you?

19

COMPLAINANT:

Good.

How are you?

20

MS. JACKSON:

Good.

We are just going to talk

21

about scheduling.

22

aware.

23

Wanted to make sure you all were

JUSTICE HARDING:

24

we going to go, Robyn?

25

MS. JACKSON:

Okay.

Okay.

Help us.

Where are

Well, we have two

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University witnesses left this morning.

Witness Four by phone and then we have Witness Five

who should be here in person.

We have

After that we would move into Complainant's

witnesses starting with Officer Harris, continuing

with Witness Six,

7
8
9
10

and

I think that puts us somewhere around early

afternoon.
JUSTICE HARDING:
MS. JACKSON:

Okay.

Take a break for lunch.

And we

11

can get into Respondent's witnesses this afternoon

12

in the order that they were given to us which is

13

Ms. Parmalee, Officer Angulo, Officer Osborn,

14

Investigator Newlin, Mr. Roberts, and

15

Dr. Goldberger.

16

Officer Angulo, Investigator Newlin,

17

Mr. Roberts, and Mr. Goldberger will all be by

18

phone.

19

JUSTICE HARDING:

Good.

20

(A brief discussion was held off the record.)

21

MR. CORNWELL:

You indicated yesterday that

22

you were calling Respondent as a University

23

witness.

24
25

Are you not doing that?

MS. JACKSON:

I don't know if I indicated

that.
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MR. CORNWELL:

be the case yesterday.

last.

witness?

I thought I understood that to

Someone said he would be

But you're not calling him as a University

MS. JACKSON:

He wasn't listed as a University

witness.

he has a right to be heard.

normal circumstances, be heard last.

9
10
11

He is the Respondent in the matter and so

MS. BUKANC:

Yeah.

And he would, in

That's when the Judge

would question him would be last.

MS. JACKSON:

My best guess, seeing how we've

12

seen the witnesses progress so far, I think we can

13

probably get through Officer Angulo today.

14

But there is people with more gray hair than

15

me in the room, and I would also be interested in

16

your estimates on that.

17
18

MR. KERR:

I would think at least through

Officer Angulo, maybe more.

19

MS. JACKSON:

20

MR. CORNWELL:

Okay.
We will remain flexible and

21

dynamic as we go through the process.

We do not

22

believe that the University has or can carry the

23

burden of meeting the preponderance of evidence

24

based on Complainant's testimony.

25

establish any evidence to support a sexual assault

She did not

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1
2

let alone a preponderance standard.

As a result, recognizing that we don't have

the burden, we may adjust our witness list

accordingly.

JUSTICE HARDING:

Very well.

MS. JACKSON:

You both listed Officer Harris so our plan was

I'm sorry, one more thing.

to make her available for examination to both of

you this morning so that she would not have to be

10

recalled if that's agreeable.

11

MR. CORNWELL:

12

MS. JACKSON:

13

MR. CORNWELL:

14

MR. KERR:

15

MS. JACKSON:

16

JUSTICE HARDING:

17
18

I understood them to withdraw.

Then they put her back.
Okay.

We withdrew the withdrawal.

Okay.

Are we good?

Very well.

If we're ready

to proceed let's -MS. JACKSON:

If you will go downstairs, we'll

19

give you a call, and then we'll get the witness on

20

the phone.

21
22

JUSTICE HARDING:

Are we getting Witness Four

on the line?

23

MS. BUKANC:

Once we're settled, yes.

24

JUSTICE HARDING:

25

(A break was taken off the record from

Okay.

Off the record.

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1
2

9:30 a.m. to 9:45 a.m.)

JUSTICE HARDING:

Very well.

Just for the

record I think it would be appropriate that

Mr. Levine has been -- is in the conference room

and without objection, but that is providing he

does not confer with or have any contact with

Respondent or Mr. Cornwell at this point.

And also, Witness Four, my name is Major

Harding, and I have been designated as the Hearing

10

Officer in this case.

11

that are around the table to please introduce

12

themselves so that you will know who is being --

13

who is here.

14

And I'm going to ask those

This matter is being taken down by a court

15

reporter.

16

taken down by a court reporter.

17

So anything I say or you say will be

And I will begin with Ms. Egan as far as

18

introductions, and we'll go around the table so

19

you'll know who is present.

20

WITNESS FOUR:

21

MS. EGAN:

22
23
24
25

Okay.

Carolyn Egan, University General

Counsel.
MR. BAJOCZKY:

Tony Bajoczky.

I'm a lawyer

that works with Justice Harding.

MS. BUKANC:

Rachel Bukanc, advisor to the

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1
2
3
4

panel.
MR. KERR:

Baine Kerr, one of Complainant's

lawyers.
MR. LEVINE:

Benjamin Levine.

I'm an attorney

with the Law Firm Gordon & Rees, and I work with

David Cornwell who is Respondent's advisor.

RESPONDENT:

MR. CORNWELL:

Respondent.
Good morning.

My name is David

Cornwell, advisor to Respondent.

10

JUSTICE HARDING:

11

Now, I understand you are a student, is that

12

correct, Witness Four?

13

WITNESS FOUR:

14

JUSTICE HARDING:

Very well.

Yes.
And as a student you have

15

the opportunity, and you may choose not to, or you

16

may choose to answer any and all of the questions

17

that are posed by me in regard to this matter.

18

And also I want to affirm that this is a

19

private matter, private and confidential, and that

20

there are to be no communications by you or anyone

21

else to anyone regarding this matter.

22

Do you understand that?

23

WITNESS FOUR:

24

JUSTICE HARDING:

25

Yes.
And, lastly, I would like to

remind you that providing false information is a

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violation of the Student Conduct Code.

2
3

And I would ask do you agree to tell the truth

in this proceeding?

WITNESS FOUR:

JUSTICE HARDING:

6
7
8
9

Yes.
Very well.

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY JUSTICE HARDING:
Q

Now, you understand that this is a matter in

which Respondent has been charged with having sex

10

without consent, and I want to inquire of you what you

11

know in that regard.

12

It's my understanding that you were with

13

Complainant on the night of December the 6th and the

14

morning of December the 7th of 2012, and that you went

15

to Potbelly's.

16
17
18

And I would like for you to tell me what you

know in regard to that incident on that evening.
A

Okay.

We went out to Pots.

We were in our

19

dorm rooms before and like my friend, Ashley, drove us

20

there.

21

involved.

22

We get to Pots and, yes, there was drinking

We were there with a couple friends.
And we were hanging out inside for a while and

23

then we just like every time -- and I had to go to the

24

bathroom, and we went together.

25

leave someone.

Obviously, we don't

And when we went to the bathroom we went

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out back.

There is a bathroom inside, but usually the

one out back is bigger so we went to that one.

It was kind of strange because on our way out

someone kind of targeted her specifically like there is

a lot of people surrounding us and she was targeted,

someone grabbed her wrist.

but they like pull her away.

8
9

It wasn't like a hard grab,

So automatically I went with her and it was a

boy and he started talking to her.

And I was like,

10

okay, I'm going to go to the bathroom.

11

stay right here, like don't move anywhere, that kind of

12

thing.

13

So I went to the bathroom.

Like can you

I come back out of

14

the bathroom, she is still standing there talking.

Then

15

he asked if he can have her number, and she looks at me

16

and I was like if you want to like you can give him your

17

number, and that's up to you.

18

number and then we -- I like pulled her away and we went

19

back inside.

And then she gave him her

20

We were inside for a little bit longer and

21

then at one point she showed me her phone and it was

22

like come outside and it was from a number that like

23

wasn't saved or anything.

24

It was like -- I'm sorry, there was a number

25

like what?
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It wasn't saved.

Okay.

Like at the top it was like show contacts, you

know.

Okay.

But there was no -- like it was a new number.

Okay.

She asked me if she should go or not, and I

9
10

said that's up to you.

And after that I don't know

who --

11

She walked outside and I know she tried to

12

call me like but the calls didn't go through.

13

know like who obviously she went with or what happened

14

on from that.

15
16

Okay.

And when was the next time you had

contact with her?

17

The next morning.

18

Okay.

19

I don't

And did the two of you or did she have,

to your knowledge, anything to drink that night?

20

Yes.

21

And how much was that?

22

I mean, she is not one to be a big drinker.

23

We drank a little bit before we left and then she had

24

maybe like one -- a drink or two while we were there.

25

And I know she took a shot from someone.

But it wasn't

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very much for her to be -- she seemed fine.

seem intoxicated like she was walking holding herself

up.

4
5
6

Okay.

She didn't

And when you talk about a shot, what do

you mean by that?

A

Like a little cup.

It wasn't like full

alcohol -- it probably had a little alcohol and like

juice with it or some sort of thing.

Okay.

All right.

And you say she showed you

10

her telephone and there was a message on that that said

11

come outside?

12

Uh-huh.

13

And she inquired of you what she should do?

14

Right.

15

And you indicated what?

16

I said it's up to you, like if you want to you

17

can go.

18

And she left and went out?

19

Uh-huh.

20
21

JUSTICE HARDING:

WITNESS FOUR:

23

JUSTICE HARDING:

25

Thank you.

Hold just

a moment.

22

24

Okay.

Okay.
Counsel, do you have

questions?
MS. BUKANC:

It goes to the Complainant and

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then --

JUSTICE HARDING:

MR. KERR:

Yes.

Yes.
And Complainant is prepared

to ask those.

JUSTICE HARDING:

Complainant, you may inquire.

COMPLAINANT:

8
9

All right.

Okay.

Very well.

One second.

CROSS EXAMINATION
BY COMPLAINANT:

10

Hey, Witness Four.

11

Hi.

12

Okay.

13

quick.

14

those texts I like walked out of the bar and we never

15

saw each other again, correct?

16
17

So just to clarify something really

You're not saying that right after I showed you

We -- yeah, you showed me the text and then

you went outside.

18

19

friendship?

20

21

close.

22

friends through everything.

23
24
25

Okay.

How would you characterize our

We have a good friendship.

We're pretty

I mean, we met freshman year and we stayed

So it's a good friendship.

Okay.

How well would you say that you know

Probably as close as your family would.

me?

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spent so many like nights together, we lived basically

in each other dorms.

3
4
5
6
7
8
9

Okay.

Like always together.

Before the night of December 6th did we

ever go out to bars or other parties together?

A

I want to say no.

We didn't usually go out --

you weren't one to go out much.

Q

Okay.

What was your own reaction when you

heard that I had been raped?

A

I was terrified.

I was so scared I like

10

didn't know how that happened.

11

confused, like shocked.

12
13
14

Okay.

I was just really

When you saw me later that morning how

would you describe my demeanor?

A

You were shaking, you were crying, you had

15

been throwing up.

16

completely from anything I've ever seen.

17

stable, you just -- I don't know, when you tried to even

18

talk to me you could barely talk.

19
20
21

Okay.

You were like -- it just had changed

And what did you say to me at that

time?
A

I asked you what happened, like how did you

22

get home, that kind of thing from you.

23

it was.

24
25

You were not

If you knew who

If you had any ideas about that.

Okay.

When did I tell you that I knew who the

man was?
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It was after you had seen him like on campus

you said you texted me and you were like I know who it

is.

made eye contact with someone and you got the feeling,

and you said he knew, you knew, and you just made that

connection.

And I was like what happened?

Okay.

When you first heard the name

Respondent did that name mean anything to you?

Not at all.

10

Okay.

11

And you said you had

Did we stay in close contact after

December 7th, 2012?

12

Did you and I?

13

Yes.

14

Yes.

15

And how would you describe any changes in me

16
17

after the night of December 7th, 2012?

A

Well, we used to do stuff together a lot more

18

I felt like because you kind of became more isolated in

19

your bed, like you just didn't want to go do much of

20

anything.

21

time, like hang out a lot more.

22

started isolating yourself, you didn't want to go do

23

much, you just kind of stayed alone.

24
25

Before that we used to go shopping all the

But you kind of just

Since that night have we talked about what

happened?
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Yes.

And how would you describe those conversations

3
4

over the past two years?

A

I mean, we tried to talk about the situation.

Like we wish, obviously, it didn't happen.

to like stay strong for each other kind of thing.

talk about what happened, obviously, to work through it;

but, then again, that's not all we always talk about,

like we have friends other than that.

10

We

But it gets a little emotional when we do talk

11

about it still to this day.

12

something that's been hard on us so.

13

But we tried

So I know it's been

So in the past two years have I ever given you

14

the impression that I in any way consented to any of the

15

sexual acts committed by Respondent that night?

16

No.

17

And have you ever had any reason to doubt my

18
19

account that I was raped by Respondent?

A

20
21

No.
COMPLAINANT:

JUSTICE HARDING:

23

25

I think that's all.

Thank you.

22

24

Okay.

Thank you.

Respondent.

CROSS EXAMINATION
BY RESPONDENT:
Q

Do you recall being interviewed by the State

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Attorney on or around November 18th, 2013?

2
3

Okay.

You were honest during that interview,

true?

Yes.

You tried to be accurate, true?

Yes.

You tried to be complete, true?

10

Yes.

11

RESPONDENT:

12

JUSTICE HARDING:

13

Harding.

All right.

This is Major

REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY JUSTICE HARDING:

16
17

That's all, Your Honor.

Excuse me, Witness Four.

14
15

don't remember the exact date; but, yes, I was.

4
5

I was interviewed by a State Attorney.

After the incident did you call Complainant or

did she call you?

18

Like that night?

19

Yes.

20

She had tried to call me but I never got any

21

calls.

22

morning I didn't receive anything.

23
24
25

Like on my phone like I showed her the next

Okay.

But she said that she had tried to call

Yeah.

I looked at her phone and looked at

you?

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mine, and hers, she showed it like rang for 20 seconds

or whatever.

Okay.

And you indicated that she had contact

with this person within Potbelly's and that he gave --

they exchanged numbers or she gave her number.

6
7
8
9
10
11

Are you aware of any interaction with

Complainant with anyone else at Potbelly's?
A

That's what I don't know.

We were together

most of the night; but, then again, I could have been

turned one way, she could have been turned another.
When she gave her number to someone by the

12

bathroom I don't know exactly who it was.

I didn't look

13

at them that hard, I didn't -- I wasn't talking to them

14

personally.

15

attention to.

So it's not something I paid close

16

JUSTICE HARDING:

17

MR. KERR:

Okay.

Thank you very much.

If we're through I would like to

18

confer just for a second about a couple possible

19

further questions.

20

JUSTICE HARDING:

Certainly.

You may do so.

21

If you will continue on the phone, please.

22

WITNESS FOUR:

23

(A break was taken off the record from

Okay.

24

10:00 a.m. to 10:04 a.m.)

25

JUSTICE HARDING:

All right.

Complainant, do

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you have questions?

COMPLAINANT:

JUSTICE HARDING:

4
5
6
7

Just a few.

Thank you.

RECROSS EXAMINATION
BY COMPLAINANT:
Q

Before the night of December 6th would you say

that you have ever seen me drunk?

No.

Okay.

10

Yes.

Would you know me as someone to ever

just go home with random guys from a bar?

11

Not at all.

12

Okay.

And then pertaining to the text that

13

you saw on my phone, can you talk about how the next

14

morning whenever we were -- you told me that there were

15

texts on my phone, how we looked for those and they

16

weren't there?

17

Yeah.

We like looked through your phone,

18

obviously, because I thought I saw your phone and it

19

said that.

20

any texts saying anything at all.

21

that it was either deleted or I don't know what happened

22

to it.

23

So we looked through and there was no longer

Okay.

So it was just weird

And, lastly, would you say that your

24

memory was better when you gave your interview to the

25

State Attorney's Office in November of 2013 than it is

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today?

I mean, I would say it would be better then

than now, yes.

and a half ago when it happened.

COMPLAINANT:

JUSTICE HARDING:

Respondent, do you have anymore questions?

RESPONDENT:

JUSTICE HARDING:

10

It also would have been better a year

Okay.

That's all.

Thank you.

Thank you.

No, Your Honor.

Very well.

Thank you very

much.

11

Anything else that we need?

12

You may be excused.

13

WITNESS FOUR:

14

MS. BUKANC:

15

going to bring him in.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Now we have Witness Five.

16

JUSTICE HARDING:

17

(A break was taken off the record from

Off the record.

18

10:06 a.m. to 10:14 a.m.)

19

JUSTICE HARDING:

20

Wait a minute.

21

MS. EGAN:

22

phone running.

23
24
25

Yeah.

JUSTICE HARDING:

We're

All right.

Witness Five --

We've still got to get the

All right.

The next witness

is Witness Five.
Witness Five, my name is Major Harding, and
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I'm the Hearing Officer in this case.

going to ask those around the table to introduce

themselves so you'll know who you're talking to

during the course of this time.

Ms. Egan.

MS. EGAN:

7
8

I'm Carolyn Egan.

MR. BAJOCZKY:
Justice Harding.

10

MS. BUKANC:

11

MS. JACKSON:

13
14

General Counsel.
MR. KERR:

Baine Kerr, advisor for

Complainant.

16

MR. CORNWELL:

19

I work with

I'm Robyn Jackson, Associate

RESPONDENT:

18

Tony Bajoczky.

Rachel Bukanc, advising Harding.

15

17

I'm the

University General Counsel.

12

And I'm

I'm Respondent.
I'm David Cornwell, advisor to

Respondent.
JUSTICE HARDING:

And this is the court

reporter.

20

Now, you are a student at FSU?

21

WITNESS FIVE:

22

JUSTICE HARDING:

Yes, sir.
And as a student you have

23

the opportunity to decline to answer any questions

24

that are asked of you as well as you have the right

25

to give an answer to any of those questions.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

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And I would also advise you that these

proceedings are private and confidential, and that

they're not -- what happens in here in your

presence is not to be disclosed to anyone at any

time.

And I hope you understand that.

WITNESS FIVE:

Yes, sir.

JUSTICE HARDING:

Very well.

Also, I would

like to remind you that providing false information

is a violation of the Student Conduct Code.

10
11

And I would ask, do you agree to tell the

truth in this proceeding?

12

WITNESS FIVE:

13
14

Yes, sir.

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY JUSTICE HARDING:

15

All right.

And your name is Witness Five?

16

Yes, sir.

17

And you understand that we're here in

18

reference to a matter that took place on December the

19

6th or 7th of 2012 wherein Respondent is alleged to have

20

had non-consensual sex with Complainant?

21

Yes, sir.

22

All right.

Now, you, I believe, were with the

23

group with someone at Potbelly's on the night of

24

December the 6th; is that correct?

25

Yes, sir.
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

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1
2

Okay.

Now, if you'd keep your voice up

because the folks on the phone have to hear you as well.

Okay.

Who did you go to Potbelly's with?

I went there originally with just like my

friends, not Complainant and not any girls, just a few

of my friends.

lot of people get there.

And we went there around 9:30 before a

Okay.

10

Probably around 10:30 or so.

11

And when did you see Complainant there?

come later just because the girls just come later.

12

Okay.

13

I have no idea.

14

Okay.

15

I'm assuming so.

16

I'm sorry?

17

I'm assuming so, yeah.

18
19
20

They usually

And was Respondent there?

You did not --

I didn't know who he

was before at that time.

Q

And you didn't -- you did not see him or

recognize him from that?

21

No.

22

Did you see Complainant drinking alcohol?

23

Yes.

I personally gave her probably two or

24

three shots, and anything after that is all speculation.

25

I didn't see her specifically drink anything else.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

But,

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I mean, it might have happened.

Did she appear to you to be in any way

intoxicated?

In no way was she -- when I saw her and from

what I remember in no way was she like too drunk or

anything like that; but, she definitely seemed like she

had a few drinks.

And what made you think that?

She was just -- you know how people get, they

10

are just, you know, laughing, fun, take the edge off,

11

she is not shy and things like that.

12

Did you ever describe her as flirty?

13

Yes, I did in my interview.

14

But you never saw her out of control in any

16

No way.

17

Did you know her before that night?

18

Yes.

15

I did.

way?
No, sir.

We met probably the second day of school

19

my freshman year.

20

his -- the girl he was talking to was her roommate.

21

then we just kind of met because just running into each

22

other and things like that.

23
24
25

Okay.

She -- My roommate at that time,

And

Now, when was the last time you saw her

at Potbelly's that night?

A

I don't know exactly the time because, like

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

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I -- I didn't know at the time that I was -- that I

should have been remembering things about that night.

So I don't know what time.

Probably maybe

around 11:00, 11:30, something like that.

I'm pretty

sure I saw her in the dance floor in the middle of

Potbelly's, the inside.

And who -- was she dancing with someone?

I said this in my interview, too.

really know specifically.

I don't

I don't even know if I saw

10

her dancing with someone, but I think I did.

11

I said, I couldn't tell you for sure because it was so

12

long ago.

13

But, like

I remember seeing her at one point and just

14

saying -- remember thinking, oh, hey, there is

15

Complainant, and then that was probably the last time.

16
17

Okay.

After that evening when was the next

time that you saw her --

18

Witness Four called me --

19

-- or had contact with her?

20

Witness Four called me at 8:00 in the morning

21

and told me to come up to Complainant's room, and I did.

22

And she -- it was just me and her and Witness Four in

23

the room.

And that was the first time I saw her.

24

And what -- what happened then?

25

I had a test at 9:00 so I couldn't stay at

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

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that moment.

would not let me touch her because -- I didn't know what

happened, obviously, at first.

and she would not let me touch her, she wouldn't let me

near her.

6
7

But she was crying her eyes out.

Then I had to leave to go to my test.

And I

came back and we talked about the whole thing then.

JUSTICE HARDING:

MR. BAJOCZKY:

Okay.

Anything further?

Nothing.

10

JUSTICE HARDING:

11

MS. BUKANC:

12

JUSTICE HARDING:

Anything further?

No.
Complainant, do you have any

questions?

14

COMPLAINANT:

15
16

And I went to go hug her

I didn't know why, and then she told me.

13

She

Yes, a few.

CROSS EXAMINATION
BY COMPLAINANT:

17

Hey, Witness Five.

18

Hey.

19

Okay.

Hey.
It has been suggested by Respondent

20

that I met him in the bar, left with him shortly

21

thereafter, went home with him and had consensual sex

22

with him.

23

Based upon your knowledge of me, would it have

24

been unusual for me to leave a bar like that with a man

25

I had just met?

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Very unusual.

Okay.

On the night of December 6th, 2012 was

I acting any different than I would normally act?

No.

Did you ever see me talking with Respondent?

No, I did not.

When you saw me the next day in my dorm room

8
9

how would you describe my demeanor?

A

You were shaken up.

You were definitely

10

something had gone wrong, something had happened to you.

11

Like I said before, you were crying your eyes out.

12

would not let me touch you.

You

13

And I told you that --

14

Definitely not something --

15

Oh, sorry.

16

Definitely not something for what one would be

17

faking it.

18

Had you ever seen me like that before?

19

No, I did not -- have not.

20

I told you then that I had been raped?

21

Yes.

22

And I told you that I had told the man to

23

stop?

24

Yes.

25

Was I ever unsure if I had been raped?

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No, you were not.

You were unsure of exactly

everything that happened and how you got there, but you

were sure you were raped.

Okay.

Since that time have I ever said

anything that is inconsistent with my initial report

that I was raped?

No.

Did you know who Respondent was in December of

9
10

No.

2012?
A

No, I did not.

11

COMPLAINANT:

12

JUSTICE HARDING:

13

MS. JACKSON:

14

we've lost Mr. Levine.

15

MR. LEVINE:

16

JUSTICE HARDING:

17

MS. EGAN:

18

MR. LEVINE:

19

MS. JACKSON:

20

Okay.

That's all.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Give me just a second.

I think

I need to dial him back in.

I'm here.
Mr. Levine, are you there?

He said he is there.
I'm here.
Okay.

Thank you.

Sorry about

that.

21

JUSTICE HARDING:

Good.

22

Respondent, do you have any questions?

23

MR. CORNWELL:

24

JUSTICE HARDING:

25

(A break was taken off the record from

Can we confer?
Yes.

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10:24 a.m. to 10:28 a.m.)

JUSTICE HARDING:

3
4
5

please.
All right.

Respondent, do you have any

questions?

RESPONDENT:

JUSTICE HARDING:

8
9

Let's go back on the record,

No further questions, Your Honor.

Very well.

Anything

further?
MR. KERR:

Nothing further.

10

JUSTICE HARDING:

11

appreciate your being here.

12

MS. BUKANC:

13

JUSTICE HARDING:

14

MS. BUKANC:

15

MR. KERR:

16

JUSTICE HARDING:

17

MR. KERR:

18

MS. JACKSON:

Thank you very much.

We

You may be excused.

Now we have Officer Harris next.

She.

Is he -She is downstairs.

But we need to switch out.

Yes, you need to switch.

So Complainant can be up here.

I don't have a problem with this

19

logistically, but you have also called Officer

20

Harris.

So then we would switch you back.

21

MR. KERR:

Okay.

22

MS. JACKSON:

Unless you want to go ahead and

23

allow him to question her first, and then we'll

24

only have to do the switch once.

25

MR. KERR:

I think probably it's our witness

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at this time and --

JUSTICE HARDING:

MS. JACKSON:

JUSTICE HARDING:

MS. JACKSON:

That's good.

All right.
We'll see you later.

If you all will go ahead and

come with me, we'll go down to 114 real quick.

JUSTICE HARDING:

Take your material with you.

MS. JACKSON:

MR. CORNWELL:

10

MS. JACKSON:

11

JUSTICE HARDING:

12

(A break was taken off the record from

However you want to do it.

I'm going to stay in the room.
You're staying up here.
Off the record.

13

10:29 a.m. to 10:38 a.m.)

14

JUSTICE HARDING:

15

you ready to proceed?

16

COMPLAINANT:

17

JUSTICE HARDING:

18
19
20
21

Okay.

Counsel, Complainant, are

Yes, Your Honor.

All right.

Let me first,

your name, please?

OFFICER HARRIS:

Yes.

Officer Dinorah Harris

with the FSU Police Department.

JUSTICE HARDING:

And you understand what

22

these proceedings are about and understand that

23

they are confidential and private, and you should

24

not discuss these matters with anyone else; is that

25

correct?

Do you understand that?

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

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OFFICER HARRIS:

JUSTICE HARDING:

Yes, sir, I do.

And you also understand that

it is important that you tell the truth, and do you

promise to tell the truth in these proceedings?

OFFICER HARRIS:

JUSTICE HARDING:

COMPLAINANT:

11

Very well.

Complainant, you

have questions?

10

I do.

Yes.

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY COMPLAINANT:
Q

Okay.

Looking at Tab 3, the 911 call was

12

placed at 3:22 a.m.; is this correct to your

13

understanding?

14

Let's see.

Compared to what was on our CAD

15

system at the time, let's see.

16

was reported was 3:22 a.m.

17

JUSTICE HARDING:

18

OFFICER HARRIS:

19

And 46 seconds to be exact.

3:22, excuse me?
Yes, sir.

3:22:46 seconds at

that time.

20
21

It states that when it

JUSTICE HARDING:

Okay.

BY COMPLAINANT:

22

And you arrived at Kellum Dorm at 3:28 a.m.?

23

Let's see here.

24

It's okay.

25

I don't know exactly what time, but it is in

I apologize.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

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our CAD system as to when the officer arrives.

documented, however, I do not have it in my

documentation today.

4
5

MR. KERR:

We've got that.

BY COMPLAINANT:

Yeah, we have it.

Okay.

Yeah, it shows here.

Okay.

10

So that's fine.

11
12
13

It is

And then you stayed with me until 5:07 a.m.

Is that also not in your -A

Let's see.

I don't believe I -- I don't know

14

exactly what time I left you.

15

transported you to TMH.

I do know that I

16

Okay.

Could you just look at that --

17

Absolutely.

18

-- and confirm that?

19

It might have been that I completed the call

20

and --

21

MR. KERR:

I'm sorry, what --

22

MS. EGAN:

For the record, it's Bate's

23
24
25

number -JUSTICE HARDING:

What is this you're

referring to?
ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

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1
2

MS. EGAN:

the bottom right just so everyone can follow along?

3
4

Can you read the number that's in

OFFICER HARRIS:
A

It's FSU-000012.

Absolutely.
And I believe what you're

looking at, or you're requesting me to look at, is

5071912, 7 of 12, unit 432 which was my call number at

the time.

The code that was entered was completed.

And

I believe when it says completed that might have been

10

when I completed either my report writing -- I can't

11

state a hundred percent if that's when I left your side

12

or if that's when I completed my report because we have

13

to call out when we've -- you know, we're on paperwork,

14

when we've left the hospital, and when I completed the

15

call completely.

16
17

So I believe that's more accurate -BY COMPLAINANT:

18

Okay.

19

-- due to the time frame.

20

But to say one

hundred percent --

21

Okay.

That's fine.

22

I'll pass that back.

23

Thank you.

24

You're welcome.

25

Okay.

And can you kind of talk about how I

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

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was or how I was acting?

demeanor was like whenever you arrived?

How I was acting or what my

Being it has been two years and many incidents

later, from that particular early morning in my report I

don't -- Let's see.

demeanor.

I don't believe I indicated your

However, I do remember -- Just from my

experience you seem to remember people that you have to

ask them the question multiple times or they respond in

10

a relatively normal manner.

11

I don't recall having to ask you repeatedly

12

three or four times until I received a response.

13

were having a conversation.

14

We

Considering the incident a fairly normal

15

conversation I would think as far as asking a question

16

and you responding.

17

Okay.

In your report you say that I was

18

having a hard time keeping things in order of how they

19

happened.

20

explain what you meant by that or --

Can you -- can you try to explain that or

21

Let's see.

Let me find where you are.

22

Okay.

23

You don't have the report or my supplement?

24

No.

25

Let's see.

I don't have it marked.

I do know that I said that, but I

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

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want to find exactly so I can --

Okay.

one, do you?

That's the report so.

Page number?

6
7

MS. EGAN:

12

MR. KERR:

It's the second paragraph.

BY COMPLAINANT:
Q

It's the second paragraph.

MR. CORNWELL:

I'm sorry, we'll need a Bate's

number for --

15

OFFICER HARRIS:

16

this is from my --

17

MR. KERR:

18

Oh, okay.

If you can tell me the paragraph.

13
14

It looks like she has the same page

COMPLAINANT:

10
11

Oh, page 4 of 6.

here.

8
9

It's on FSU -- oh, you don't have this

Okay.

Okay.

This is completely --

Seventeen.

So it's going to be about, it appears,

19

maybe the fifth line down.

20

remembering what exactly happened and in what order they

21

happened.

22

She was having a hard time

Just question/answers.

You might have been

23

all over the place.

You know, that's what it says.

24

Because that was probably just -- you were having -- you

25

had probably indicated that you were having a hard time

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

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knowing what order --

BY COMPLAINANT:

Okay.

-- the events took place.

Is this typical with trauma?

It can be.

Okay.

To my training and experience, yes, it is

9
10
11
12

That's fine.

common.
Q

Okay.

How clear was I that it had been a

non-consensual encounter?
A

Just what I indicated in my report, that you

13

didn't know at the time -- or, I'm sorry, consensual

14

encounter?

15

Non-consensual encounter.

16

Okay.

17
18
19

question?
Q

Okay.

I'm sorry, can you rephrase your

I apologize.
It's okay.

I'll rephrase it.

Okay.

want me to rephrase it or just restate it?

20

You can restate it, that's fine.

21

Okay.

22

Do you

How clear was I that it had been

non-consensual?

23

It would just be what was in my report.

24

Okay.

25

So if -ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

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1
2
3

And I'll go ahead and ask it.

How clear was I

that I told him to stop and he wouldn't?

A

I believe -- Let's see.

Okay.

Basically that when your -- when in the

incident of having penis to vagina intercourse that you

did tell him to stop.

indicate how many times or anything like that, but that

you did at one time.

Okay.

You didn't indicate -- I didn't

And can you go over what I said

10

happened on the bed in the apartment, or what you

11

reported?

12

Let's see.

Indicated or what I placed in my

13

report was that you remembered being on the floor, but

14

that it wasn't at the bar.

15

you know, on the floor of someone's apartment.

16

the next thing that you knew you were on the bed and

17

that's where intercourse took place.

18
19
20

Okay.

That it was at an apartment,

And that

Can you like state everything that I

said happened on the bed?

A

That's where being on the bed and that's when

21

the black male was having penis to vagina intercourse

22

with her.

23

black man with dreads in his hair stood in the doorway

24

while telling the other black male to stop what he was

25

doing.

She stated she saw the door open and another

The victim stated she told the black male to

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1
2
3

stop, but he replied it would be okay.

Q

Okay.

And then now can you say what I said

happened on leaving the apartment?

Upon leaving?

Yes.

That you got on the back of a scooter?

Okay.

8
9

Could you go ahead and state everything

that I said that's in your report.

A

That the victim stated that she then

10

remembered getting on a scooter with the black male

11

or -- she wasn't able to provide a location she was

12

coming from.

13

she remembered seeing or being on Call Street by the CVS

14

and Tennessee Street.

15

The only thing she was able to provide was

Do you want me to continue or is that --

16

Yes, please.

17

Okay.

18

she lived.

19

her -- tell him her true address so she told him Sally

20

Hall, which is another residence hall on campus.

21

that the black male dropped her off at the intersection

22

of Stadium Drive and Call Street which is about

23

approximately, I believe, like five hundred thousand

24

feet [sic] at approximately 2:00 a.m., and the victim

25

walked back to her residence.

She stated the black male asked where

The victim stated she didn't want to tell

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And

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1
2
3

Okay.

Thank you.

And how did you determine

it was off campus?

A

Because -- because of the CVS that you

recalled, seeing the CVS which was located off Tennessee

Street which we do not have or own property --

I mean, we do have anthropology that's in that

area, however, due to the unknown location of where the

apartment or where the assault took place my supervisor

at the time felt it was necessary to contact the city,

10

the Tallahassee Police Department --

11

Okay.

12

-- and have them involved.

13

Were you present when Officer Fallis did his

14

interview?

15
16

MR. CORNWELL:

I'm sorry, I didn't hear the

end of the question.

17

COMPLAINANT:

Were you present when Officer

18

Fallis did his interview?

19

I was present at the room.

I met him at your

20

room, the residence hall outside, informed him of the

21

incident which we typically do.

22

let them know, okay, this is, you know, the incident

23

that has been explained to me.

24

probably asked you some similar questions.

25

I was -- as officers we

I know he came in,

I did not get involved during his questioning

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

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with you.

evidence, and then I volunteered to transport you to

TMH.

And I know that there was a collection of

So as far as questioning with Officer Fallis,

I cannot --

BY COMPLAINANT:

But the interview, you were in the presence?

Well, I don't know if he continued to question

you further or -- So to say the whole time that that was

10

his only interview with you, I can't confirm or deny

11

that.

12

13
14
15
16
17
18

Okay.

Thank you.

And he wrote that during the interview bruises

began to appear.
A

Do you recall that?

I was not -- any questioning, anything that he

saw we did not converse.

Q

Okay.

But you don't personally recall that,

the bruises appearing?

19

No.

20

Okay.

21

That's fine.

And -- Okay.

Did you transport me to

the hospital?

22

I did.

23

And did I seem somewhat traumatized?

24

That's an opinion.

25

Okay.

You know, a statement.

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Visibly upset.

Okay.

Yes, you were.

And what happened at the hospital while you

were there?

And was I cooperative throughout?

I can't recall exactly.

I know that at some

time upon appearing at TMH, Tallahassee Memorial

Hospital, a Victim's Advocate, FSU Victim's Advocate was

introduced to you.

10

At that time because the investigation had

11

been turned over to Tallahassee Police Department and I

12

had introduced the Victim's Advocate I was no longer

13

needed per se.

14
15

COMPLAINANT:

Okay.

I think that's all.

Thank you.

16

OFFICER HARRIS:

17

JUSTICE HARDING:

18

Any questions by Respondent?

19

MR. CORNWELL:

20
21
22

You're welcome.
Thank you.

Yes, Your Honor, we will have

questions.
JUSTICE HARDING:

Do you want to take a short

moment to confer?

23

MR. KERR:

Should we go first?

24

MS. JACKSON:

25

MR. KERR:

I think so.

Okay.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

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JUSTICE HARDING:

Thank you.

(A break was taken off the record from

10:52 a.m. to 11:00 a.m.)

JUSTICE HARDING:

MS. BUKANC:

COMPLAINANT:

JUSTICE HARDING:

Okay.

Complainant, are you still there?

Yes.
Okay.

I believe at this

time, Respondent, if you have questions you may ask

Ms. Harris.

10
11
12

Officer Harris.
CROSS EXAMINATION

BY RESPONDENT:
Q

Officer Harris, can you please identify to

13

Justice Harding the curb in front of Sally Hall, the

14

walkway to the parking lot behind Sally Hall, and Kellum

15

Hall, please?

16

MR. CORNWELL:

17

(Respondent's Exhibit 6 was marked for

18

identification.)

19

Okay.

This will be, what, Exhibit 6?

So you just want me to confirm or deny

20

that this is what you're asking?

21

BY RESPONDENT:

22

Yes.

23

Okay.

Can you identify it?

Yes, this is the walkway in between

24

what we call the east and west halls for Sally Hall,

25

yes, buildings.
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Okay.

JUSTICE HARDING:

MR. KERR:

All right.

Excuse me.

I don't know if now is the time

to --

JUSTICE HARDING:

MR. KERR:

Object.

-- to object, but I have an

objection to these being accepted into the record

because they were not disclosed as they should have

been on November 20th.

10
11
12
13

They may be used to refresh her recollection,

but not accepted as exhibits.
JUSTICE HARDING:
handed to me.

14

MR. CORNWELL:

15

JUSTICE HARDING:

16
17

I gave him what was just

Yes, okay.
And is that the purpose for

which it is -MR. CORNWELL:

We want it in evidence.

18

don't know why they're running from it.

I mean, it

19

is what it is.

20

clear indication, a clear understanding of the

21

areas that we're talking about.

It's for Your Honor's use to have a

22

I think the educational purpose of this

23

process should not require exclusion of evidence

24

that is helpful, nor would I imagine that the

25

Complainant would want to exclude evidence that

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

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aided Your Honor in having a clear understanding of

the issues in the case but...

MS. BUKANC:

But the way it works for the

student conduct process is you made an objection,

and the Judge has listened to the objection, and

then we'll move forward and he'll decide once he is

doing his deliberation if he is going to include it

or not.

JUSTICE HARDING:

10

MS. BUKANC:

11

MR. CORNWELL:

12

JUSTICE HARDING:

Very well.

But it's on the record for both.

Okay.
And it has been marked

13

tentatively as Number 6.

14

MR. CORNWELL:

That's right.

15

Number 7 now.

16

hand it to everybody else.

17
18

identification.)
OFFICER HARRIS:

23
24
25

So this is Number 1 or Number

7?

21
22

If you will allow me to mark it and

(Respondent's Exhibit 7 was marked for

19
20

So let's do

MR. CORNWELL:
me.

Seven.

You're making fun of

I'll cross it.

OFFICER HARRIS:

I'm sorry.

I'm just making

sure.
MR. CORNWELL:

I crossed my 7.

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OFFICER HARRIS:

identifying?

Thank you.

And, again, which one am I -- what am I

MR. CORNWELL:

OFFICER HARRIS:

Okay.

Just hold on.

Just hold on?

Okay.

BY RESPONDENT:

Officer Harris.

Yes.

Is this the walkway between Sally to Kellum?

10
11

JUSTICE HARDING:
number?

12

RESPONDENT:

13

JUSTICE HARDING:

14

MR. KERR:

15

Yes, 7.
Seven.

And the same objection and

continuing, if that's okay --

16

JUSTICE HARDING:

17

MR. KERR:

18

JUSTICE HARDING:
noted in the record.

20

Okay.

21

get to Kellum?

22

BY RESPONDENT:

Very well.

-- to undisclosed materials.

19

And the objection will be

There is multiple walkways.

Can you

Sure.

23

Excuse me.

24

Okay.

25

You are referring to exhibit

But the walkway from Call Street?

It's -- In the picture you can see that

there is a passage which goes from the stairs, which I

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believe this is on the south side of Sally Hall -- which

are these the same stairs that are pictured in -- I

don't have an exhibit number on this one; but, Exhibit

6, is that what this one is?

Uh-huh.

Okay.

staircases?

Yes, ma'am.

Okay.

So are these two in the same

As I was saying before, this is a

10

passage which you can walk through.

11

buildings and such, but you can -- you can get to Kellum

12

through there.

13
14

(Respondent's Exhibit 8 was marked for

identification.)

15

MR. CORNWELL:

16

OFFICER HARRIS:

17

MR. CORNWELL:

18

JUSTICE HARDING:

19
20

May I distribute it?

Thank you.

Can you identify that --

22

RESPONDENT:

25

That's my bad.

BY RESPONDENT:

JUSTICE HARDING:

24

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

21

23

There is multiple

This is Number 8?

Yeah, Number 8.

Number 8.

BY RESPONDENT:
Q

That this is the view of Kellum when you go

through this walkway, Number 7?

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Well, this is a view on the north side of

Sally Hall into what we call the Hall drive parking

lots.

So when you emerge from Sally?

Yes, sir.

You can view Kellum from this?

Yes, you can.

JUSTICE HARDING:

MR. KERR:

Same objection, Your Honor.

10

JUSTICE HARDING:

11

RESPONDENT:

12

JUSTICE HARDING:

13

And the same objection?

Very well.

No more questions, Your Honor.

Okay.

All right.

questions by Respondent.

14

Anymore questions from Complainant?

15

MR. KERR:

16

COMPLAINANT:

17

JUSTICE HARDING:

18

much, Officer Harris.

I don't believe so but maybe -No, Your Honor.

19

MS. EGAN:

20

JUSTICE HARDING:

21
22

Very well.

Thank you very

I appreciate you being here.

Thank you.
I think the next witness is

Witness Six.
(A break was taken off the record from

23

11:08 a.m. to 11:17 a.m.)

24

JUSTICE HARDING:

25

No more

All right.

Let's go back on

the record.
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Hi.

MR. LEVINE:

JUSTICE HARDING:

MR. CLUNE:

Who is on the phone?

Benjamin Levine and Respondent.

Your Honor, John Clune here as

well.

JUSTICE HARDING:

All right.

8
9
10

Okay.

Thank you.

Witness Six, you are Witness Six;

is that correct?
WITNESS SIX:

That is correct.

JUSTICE HARDING:

Okay.

And I'm Major

11

Harding.

I've been designated as the Hearing

12

Officer in this proceeding.

13

you're Complainant's father; is that correct?

14

WITNESS SIX:

15

JUSTICE HARDING:

And I understand

That is correct.
And you understand that

16

these proceedings are private and confidential, and

17

you should not disclose to anyone outside of those

18

around this table anything that happens during the

19

course of this proceeding.

20

Do you understand that?

21

WITNESS SIX:

22

JUSTICE HARDING:

23

Yes, sir.
And do you also promise to

tell the truth in regard to this matter?

24

WITNESS SIX:

Yes, sir, I do.

25

JUSTICE HARDING:

Okay.

You may inquire,

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Complainant.

COMPLAINANT:

I have a few questions, but I

thought it would be weird to question my father.

So would you, please?

JUSTICE HARDING:

6
7
8
9
10
11

Okay.

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY JUSTICE HARDING:
Q

Witness Six, would you please explain how you

first found out about what had happened on December the

6th -- 7th and 6th of 2012?
A

In the early morning between probably 2:00 and

12

3:00 in the morning we got a phone call on our house

13

phone waking us up.

14

and the cheerleading coach at our local school and she

15

was -- my wife answered and she was explaining that she

16

got a call from another student that Complainant was in

17

trouble and had been raped.

18

It was Mrs. Brady who was a teacher

We couldn't believe it.

We were like it's got

19

to be a mistake, but we'll call her right now.

20

hung up and my wife called.

21

was hysterical, crying.

22

tell us what was going on.

23

My wife was the one on the phone.

24
25

So we

Complainant answered.

She

We were trying to get her to

I was trying to listen in.

After a few minutes I grabbed my cellphone and

I called a friend of mine who was a lieutenant with the
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local sheriff's department over the major crimes

division.

Tallahassee?

When you say local, meaning here in

No, sir.

The local in Pasco County where I

live.

Okay.

And he was a lieutenant with the sheriff's

department there over major crimes.

Trying to tell him.

10

And he basically told me that rape is the worst thing

11

one person can do to another besides murder, and that we

12

needed to get to her as quick as we could, let her know

13

that we loved her, and let her know that she did nothing

14

wrong.

15

I came back in the room, hung up with him,

16

came back in the room.

17

with Complainant.

18

the Tallahassee -- or, excuse me, FSU Police Department

19

showed up.

20

My wife was still on the phone

Within a minute or two it seemed like

When the Officer came in she told Complainant

21

that she needed her undivided attention and that she

22

needed to hang up.

23

Complainant that we were on our way.

24
25

I had taken the phone and told

We grabbed a few things and got in our car and

started heading towards here.
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And when did you arrive in Tallahassee?

I would say it was between 6:30 and 7:00 in

the morning.

And where -- where did you see her?

We went straight to the hospital.

When we got

there we found where she was at.

Tallahassee police officers there.

from the Victim's Advocate office and Witness Three was

there.

10

There was two

There was someone

The Tallahassee PD informed us that the

11

medical staff was in with her and that we would have to

12

wait a few minutes.

13

we did get to go in that we would only have a couple

14

minutes because they needed to interview her and talk to

15

her.

16

And they also informed us that when

It was -- it was a short period of time when

17

they let us in.

18

both me and my wife, and was holding her and crying with

19

her and telling her that we loved her.

20
21
22

We just climbed in the bed with her,

It wasn't long before Tallahassee PD asked us

to let them do their part.
At that point I -- we went back outside and I

23

took Witness Three back to her car at the dorm.

24

then when I returned back to the hospital I -- it was

25

only a short period of time before they were ready to

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release her.

So then we took her back to her dorm.

went into the bathroom with her.

and sick.

went out -- or, excuse me.

My wife

She was throwing up

And then we got her into her bed.

And then I

Then me and my wife, we were hoping she would

get some sleep, so we went to the drugstore to get her

prescriptions filled and we went by Panera Bread to get

her a bagel, I believe.

And we stayed there a Panera

10

Bread until her prescription was ready to be picked up.

11

And then we came back, back to her dorm.

12

When we got back Witness Four was in the room

13

with her.

14

so, again, we talked to them and trying to figure out

15

what had happened.

16

we were trying to get her to get some rest.

17

They were sitting on the bed talking.

And

It wasn't long Witness Four left and

And then early afternoon she said she was

18

going to get cleaned up and go meet with Tallahassee PD

19

again.

20

us, and she said, no, that she was going to -- she was

21

going to stay.

And she said it was okay for us to go

22

ahead and go.

We told her we would stay as long as she

23

needed, but she said she would get through it.

24

we headed back towards our hometown.

25

And we asked her if she wanted to come home with

And so

Have you noticed any change in your daughter

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1
2

since this happened?

A

There has been a lot of change.

She is --

When she was in high school she was involved with so

many things.

the volleyball team, she was editor of the yearbook, she

was in several clubs and she was always going, going,

going.

She played volleyball, she was captain on

Then when she got -- she came to FSU which is

where she has always wanted to go she joined a sorority

10

right away, she went out for the club volleyball team

11

that they have and was playing club volleyball.

12

again, always going.

13

And,

She loved it up here.

And then since this has happened and since she

14

has moved back home she -- she sleeps until noon on her

15

days when she doesn't have anything to do, she stays

16

around the house, she hardly ever goes out.

17

In one way that's good for us because I get to

18

spend more time with her, but she is just not the same

19

person she was.

20
21
22

Have you ever talked about what happened on

that night since December, 2012 with your daughter?

A

I have.

I haven't asked for the graphic

23

details, but we've discussed it and -- And, again, I

24

just let her know that it's not her fault and she'll get

25

through it.
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1
2
3

And have you ever had the impression from

those conversations that your daughter was not raped?

A

No.

She was definitely raped.

JUSTICE HARDING:

Okay.

Does Respondent have questions?

MR. CORNWELL:

We will.

Thank you.

I think we would like

to follow the procedure we did earlier and have

Your Honor ask the questions of Complainant's

father as opposed to Respondent.

10

JUSTICE HARDING:

11

MR. CORNWELL:

Okay.

With that in mind I'm going to

12

confer and be back shortly.

13

JUSTICE HARDING:

14

MS. BUKANC:

15

JUSTICE HARDING:

16
17

Very well.

Back on mute.
I'm not going to touch it.

Thank you.
(A break was taken off the record from

18

11:25 a.m. to 11:33 a.m.)

19

JUSTICE HARDING:

20
21
22

Very well.

All right.

Are you on the

phone?
MR. LEVINE:

Ben Levine and Respondent on the

phone.

23

JUSTICE HARDING:

24

All right.

Good.

Respondent has these questions.

25
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1
2
3

CROSS EXAMINATION
BY JUSTICE HARDING:
Q

To your knowledge, did your daughter know that

she could call 911 to report an emergency?

whether she knew that?

I do not know if she knew that.

Okay.

Do you know

On December the 7th of 2012 were you

aware that Complainant was in a relationship with Jamal

Roberts?

10
11

I did not know that she was in a relationship

with him.

12

JUSTICE HARDING:

13

COMPLAINANT:

14

MR. KERR:

15
16
17
18
19

Do you have --

I'll ask, yes.

Okay.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY COMPLAINANT:
Q

Have there ever been any other crises or

police involvement with me?

A

Never.

Never.

20

COMPLAINANT:

21

JUSTICE HARDING:

22

Very well.

All right.

I think that's all.

Thank you.

Anything further

of this witness?

23

Thank you.

You may be excused.

24

WITNESS SIX:

25

MS. EGAN:

Thank you, sir.

Thank you.

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JUSTICE HARDING:

MS. JACKSON:

to see if she is here.

Now, next is?

Next is

11:35 a.m. to 11:45 a.m.)

JUSTICE HARDING:
then is

All right.

The next witness

MS. JACKSON:

JUSTICE HARDING:

10

I'm going

(A break was taken off the record from

Yes, sir.
, I'm Major

Harding, and I'm the Hearing Officer.

11

We're on.

Those on the phone can hear?

12

MR. LEVINE:

13

MR. CLUNE:

14

JUSTICE HARDING:

15

All right.

Yes.

Ben Levine and Respondent.

Yes, Your Honor.

Good.

My name is Major Harding.

I'm the

16

Hearing Officer.

And I'm going to ask those around

17

the table to introduce themselves so you will know

18

who is here.

19

We'll begin with Ms. Egan.

20

MS. EGAN:

21
22

Carolyn Egan.

General Counsel.
MR. BAJOCZKY:

23

Justice Harding.

24

MS. BUKANC:

25

I'm the University

Tony Bajoczky.

I work with

Rachel Bukanc, advisor to Major

Harding.
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1
2

MS. JACKSON:

I'm the Associate General Counsel.

3
4

MR. CORNWELL:

MR. KERR:

I'm David

I'm Baine Kerr, advisor to

Complainant.

7
8

Good morning.

Cornwell, advisor to Respondent.

5
6

, I'm Robyn Jackson,

JUSTICE HARDING:

Very well.

And the court

reporter.

You understand that this is a private,

10

confidential matter, and what happens here today

11

should not be disclosed to anyone other than those

12

of us around the table.

13

Do you understand that?

14

15

Yes, I do.

JUSTICE HARDING:

And, further, do you

16

understand that it is important for you to tell the

17

truth, and do you agree to tell the truth in these

18

proceedings?

19

20
21

JUSTICE HARDING:

COMPLAINANT:

23

25

All right.

Complainant, I

believe you have questions of this witness.

22

24

I do.

Yes, sir.

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY COMPLAINANT:
Q

Hi.
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Hi.

Who are you and what do you do?

4
5
6
7

I am a forensic examiner

for sexual assault victims.

Q

And can you kind of explain what a SANE nurse

does?
A

I'm a registered nurse.

I practice as a

forensic examiner to collect evidence, preserve it, turn

it over to law enforcement.

I perform complete physical

10

exams on victims and provide prophylactic medications

11

and counseling.

12
13
14

And can you briefly describe your training and

experience in being a SANE nurse?

A

I became a forensic examiner in 2008.

I work

15

for the local rape crisis center, Refuge House.

16

Training consists of about 40 hours of active training

17

and then about a year to practice your clinical skills

18

and become proficient.

19

I am credentialed through the International

20

Association of Forensic Nurses.

I'm certified.

And I

21

maintain that with 40, 45 hours of continuing education

22

every three years.

23

Okay.

What was your role on this case?

24

I was the forensic examiner.

25

And do you recall this particular SANE exam?

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No, I do not.

All right.

Have you been able to review your

report on this case?

Yes, I have.

Can you tell the Judge what you did and what

your findings were from the exam?

Do you have a document I could refer to?

I don't have it with me.

9
10
11
12
13

MR. KERR:
A

Downstairs.

If not, I have my copy if that's okay.

BY COMPLAINANT:
Q

Oh, yes.
MS. EGAN:

We won't be able to use the Bate's

14

numbers if we don't use one that's numbered.

15

really rather use one that has the numbers on it.

16

JUSTICE HARDING:

17

MS. EGAN:

18
19
20

Hers is not numbered then?

Hers is not numbered in the way

that we've numbered the whole record.

MR. KERR:

I can get everything from

downstairs.

21

MS. EGAN:

22

MR. CORNWELL:

23

I'd

Let's do that.
What Bate's number, do you

know?

24

MS. EGAN:

I don't know offhand.

25

JUSTICE HARDING:

We don't know.

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1
2

MS. EGAN:
with it.

3
4

By the time I find it he'll be back

(A break was taken off the record from

11:45 a.m. to 11:50 a.m.)

MS. EGAN:

Baine, do you have an extra copy of

that so that both Complainant and the witness can

have one?

use.

9
10

MR. KERR:

No, I don't.

We just have the one

copy.

11
12

Because, if not, I have one that she can

MS. EGAN:

All right.

Let's try that one and

let everybody look at it together.

13

Mine goes from 866 to 902.

14

JUSTICE HARDING:

All right.

Now, with the

15

Bate's number confirmed for the report you may look

16

at that, please.

17
18
19
20
21
22

MS. EGAN:

I'm just handing her the entire TMH

packet that we had at Tab 73.

BY COMPLAINANT:
Q

Before that, can you describe the components

of a forensic exam like this one?

A

Okay.

As I said before, it would be a head to

23

toe assessment of the patient including an in detail

24

gynecological exam.

25

Okay.

And can you tell the Judge what you did

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2
3

and what your findings were from the exam?

A

Certainly.

This patient presented.

have some exterior trauma.

She did

She had --

MR. CORNWELL:

One second, Your Honor.

If the witness is going to refer to multiple

pages of the report that she do so identify the

page before she testifies --

8
9

JUSTICE HARDING:
you would.

10
11

:
A

12
13

Certainly.

It's listed page 7 of 34.

MR. CORNWELL:

The Bate's number is at the

bottom.

14

15
16

Yes, that would be good if

Okay.

JUSTICE HARDING:
A

FSU000875.

Go ahead.

It shows a couple of bruises.

She had a

17

bruise on her left forearm that was brown.

18

brownish bruise on her knees and some redness just below

19

both of her kneecaps, and she had some mild redness on

20

the top of her right foot.

21

She had a

As far as perineal exam, she had mild

22

generalized vaginal tenderness and redness.

23

lacerations, no bruising, no tears, but just generalized

24

redness.

25

No actual

That was the extent of the exam that I saw

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that was abnormal.

BY COMPLAINANT:

It appears that you did a brief interview with

me, or of me.

interview?

7
8
9
10
11
12

And what is the purpose of that

What the patient tells us guides what we

collect.
Q

What is your expectation of a victim's memory

in responding to your questions about a sexual assault?

A

Everyone is different.

Some people remember

quite vividly, others remember very little.

Q

So this interview that you did is not intended

13

to be a comprehensive interview of everything that

14

happened?

15

No, it is not.

16

Okay.

17

My job is mainly to perform an exam, collect

18

evidence.

19

law enforcement.

20
21

And why not?

As far as in depth detail, that belongs to

Okay.

Is vaginal tenderness consistent with a

sexual assault?

22

It can be.

23

And is vaginal redness consistent with a

24
25

sexual assault?
A

It can be.
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2

Are muscle strains consistent with a sexual

assault; and, if so, in what circumstances?

They can be if a struggle was involved.

From what you observed in your exam was there

anything you noted that was inconsistent with a sexual

assault?

No.

And from what you observed was there anything

9
10

that was inconsistent with what I had described had

happened?

11

No.

12

If there had been such inconsistencies would

13
14
15

you have made a note of that on your records?

A

We don't come right out and say not consistent

with, no.

16

COMPLAINANT:

17

JUSTICE HARDING:

18

Okay.

That's all.

Will Respondent have

questions?

19

MR. CORNWELL:

Yes.

20

JUSTICE HARDING:

21

(A break was taken off the record from

All right.

22

11:56 a.m. to 12:06 p.m.)

23

JUSTICE HARDING:

24

questions of this witness?

25

RESPONDENT:

Respondent, you have

Yes, Your Honor.

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JUSTICE HARDING:

2
3

You may proceed.

CROSS EXAMINATION
BY RESPONDENT:

Yes.

Could the vaginal redness that you noted be

consistent with consensual sex?

It can be.

Could the mild vaginal tenderness that you

10

noted be consensual -- be consistent with consensual

11

sex?

12

It can be.

13

Could the mild redness that you noted on your

14
15

report be consistent with consensual sex?

A

Yes, it can.

16

RESPONDENT:

No further questions, Your Honor.

17

JUSTICE HARDING:

18

further, Complainant?

19

COMPLAINANT:

20

JUSTICE HARDING:

21

don't have any questions.

Very well.

Anything

No, thank you.

22

MS. EGAN:

23

JUSTICE HARDING:

24

MR. BAJOCZKY:

25

JUSTICE HARDING:

Thank you very much.

Thank you.
Do you?

No, sir.
Thank you.

You may be

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2
3
4
5

excused.
(A break was taken off the record from
12:07 p.m. to 1:40 p.m.)
JUSTICE HARDING:

can you hear me?

6
7

All right.

Yes, sir.

JUSTICE HARDING:

Okay.

My name is Major

Harding, and I'm the Hearing Officer that has been

designated for this.

And I would like to advise

10

you that this hearing and what happens here today

11

is very private and confidential, and is not to be

12

disclosed to anyone other than those involved

13

today.

14

And do you understand that?

15

16
17

JUSTICE HARDING:

And, also, do you promise to

tell the truth in this matter?

18
19

Yes, sir.

Yes, sir.

JUSTICE HARDING:

All right.

And I'm going to

20

ask, going around the table, so you'll know who

21

will be hearing what you say.

22

In addition to the court reporter we will

23

begin with Ms. Egan.

24

MS. EGAN:

25

Carolyn Egan, University General

Counsel.
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1
2

MR. BAJOCZKY:

MS. BUKANC:

MS. JACKSON:

Hi.

MR. CORNWELL:

Good afternoon.

MR. KERR:

Baine Kerr, advisor to Complainant.

10

COMPLAINANT:

11

JUSTICE HARDING:
phone.

13

20
21

Okay.

JUSTICE HARDING:

Complainant, you may ask the

witness questions.

17

19

And there are folks on the

All right.

15

18

Complainant.

Respondent, Mr. Levine, and Mr. Clune.

14

16

David

Cornwell, advisor to Respondent.

12

Robyn Jackson for the

General Counsel's Office.

7
8

Rachel Bukanc, University advisor

for Major Harding.

5
6

I work with

Major Harding.

3
4

Tony Bajoczky.

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY COMPLAINANT:
Q

Hi,

Can you talk about who you are

and what you do?

A

Yes.

I am a social worker.

I previously

22

volunteered as a Victim's Advocate at the Refuge House.

23

And I've since discontinued doing that.

24
25

But when I met Complainant that was my

position.

I was a volunteer for the sexual assault

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1
2

team.
Q

Okay.

And can you please explain your

training and experience for your job as a Victim's

Advocate?

Yes.

I completed 60 hours of training

in-house with trained professionals.

They talked to us.

We did lots of testing and it was very intensive.

about six weeks we did that.

For

And then I also trained with skilled

10

professionals just shadowing them and following them for

11

the first couple of times that I was involved.

12

I interned at the Refuge House for quite some

13

time as a student.

14

nearing the end of an internship with the Refuge House.

15

So I had been there for approximately two years.

16

Okay.

So at that time in 2012 I was

How many sexual assault victims have

17

you worked with either as an on-call advocate or

18

otherwise in your career?

19

I do not have the exact number.

20

Could you like guess or --

21

Sure.

I think that it would have been greater

Okay.

And what was your role in this specific

22
23
24
25

than 50.
Q
case?
A

In this specific case I was an advocate sent

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out to provide supportive services to you if that was

what you wanted, which it was.

Okay.

I have a pretty good recollection of this

5
6
7
8
9

And how well do you recall this case?

case.
Q

Can you kind of walk us through what you do

recall?
A

Sure.

I remember getting a call in the middle

of the night that you were at the hospital so I -- I

10

came up there probably around 5:00 -- between 5:00 and

11

6:00 I would say.

12

I remember that you were there and you had a

13

friend there as well, and that you spoke with me and

14

said that you had been sexually assaulted by a black

15

male, that he had a roommate that had come in and asked

16

him to stop, and when he had said stop when the roommate

17

had come in he then took you to the bathroom and locked

18

the door because there was a lock on that door and he

19

took you there and finished.

20

And then went -- he took you on a scooter and

21

dropped you off somewhere near campus, and you called a

22

friend and your friend came and picked you up.

23

you called law enforcement.

24
25

Okay.

And then

You wrote in the report that my

demeanor was flat and not outwardly emotional and that I

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seemed dissociated.

Can you kind of explain what that meant?

Sure.

It just seems there was a severe

reduction in emotional expressiveness and you were

dissociated.

switching off.

survive traumatic events.

of sexual assault.

I kind of see that as your brain just

It's a defense mechanism to help people
It's very common of survivors

So you were not displaying any emotions

10

outwardly which made me think that you were emotionally

11

disconnected from the event at that time.

12

I made that assessment.

13

Okay.

So that's why

And if other witnesses would have

14

described me as being hysterical or crying hysterically,

15

would that surprise you?

16

Yes, that would surprise me.

17

I mean like earlier, not at that time.

18

Could you explain a little bit more.

19

Like

before I got there; is that what you're saying?

20

Yes.

21

No, I don't think that would surprise me.

22

Okay.

The purpose was to make sure that you knew

23
24
25

What was the purpose of interviewing

me?

that you had support, immediate support to come and help

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you through the process with law enforcement, just to be

there to be an advocate for you.

understanding what was going on; if you needed help

talking with law enforcement; if you needed follow up

care; just knowing that you had somebody that could

connect you to the resources that you might be

interested in.

8
9
10
11

What are your expectations about a victim's

ability to recount the assault at this stage of the

process?
A

12
13

Could you repeat that question?

JUSTICE HARDING:

COMPLAINANT:

15

JUSTICE HARDING:

19
20

The process -- okay.

-- you're talking about

when, now or then?

17
18

When you say this stage of

the process --

14

16

If you needed help

COMPLAINANT:

No, then.

Whenever she was

involved.
BY COMPLAINANT:
Q

What are your expectations about a victim's

21

ability to recount the assault at this stage of the

22

process pertaining to like when you were involved?

23

I would say that judging from my assessment

24

that you were dissociated.

A lot of times when

25

individuals are dissociated their -- it's a natural

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response and often they're not able to remember

everything; and, if they do remember things, it's not

within chronological order, if they're fragmented.

would think that not being able to remember everything

at that exact time is a common response.

Okay.

And you wrote down that I said I didn't

remember much.

memory based upon your prior experience and training?

9
10
11

But what was your own impression of my

My own impression was that you remembered a

great deal of detail comparatively.

Q

Okay.

Thank you.

Were you at all concerned

12

that I could not recall all of the details of that

13

evening?

14

No.

15

How common is it, in your experience, for a

16

rape victim to recall some details with specificity and

17

other details not at all?

18
19
20
21

I would say that that is -- that would be a

product of dissociation.
Q

Based upon your training and experience did I

seem like someone who had been traumatized?

22

Yes.

23

And can you talk about why a little bit?

24

I think that your reaction to what had

25

happened was -- it was a very common reaction and

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

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victims of sexual assault I think that --

What I recall, walking away I remember

thinking that you had remembered -- you had remembered a

great deal; you immediately contacted law enforcement;

you were willing to press charges; you were willing to

get, you know, the police involved; and, that is not

always typical of people, you know, in my experience.

They a lot of times -- a lot of times -- Of

course everybody that I have assisted, as you know, they

10

have said that they have been involved in some way; but,

11

the fact that you got your family involved and that you

12

got a friend and you had law enforcement involved

13

immediately kind of gave me the impression that this was

14

real and that this had happened and that you wanted

15

to -- you wanted to I guess figure out -- you know,

16

figure out why it had happened and you wanted to be

17

heard.

18

Okay.

And was there anything in your contact

19

with me that gave you the impression that this was not a

20

sexual assault?

21
22
23
24
25

No.
COMPLAINANT:

That's all.
:

Thank you so much.

You're welcome.

JUSTICE HARDING:

All right.

We're going to

take a short break.

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1
2

Will Respondent have questions of this

witness?

3
4

MR. CORNWELL:

Yes, he will, Your Honor.

we run the risk of them being extensive.

JUSTICE HARDING:

(A break was taken off the record from

JUSTICE HARDING:

11

15

Okay.

JUSTICE HARDING:

12

14

Okay.

Respondent has some questions.

10

13

Sure.

1:51 p.m. to 2:04 p.m.)

8
9

And

Respondent.

CROSS EXAMINATION
BY RESPONDENT:
Q

You were not a clinical psychologist at the

time of the alleged incident, true?

16

True.

17

Your opinions are based on 60 hours of

18

training on working with an undetermined number of

19

women, true?

20

Yes.

21

You testified that Complainant "immediately

22

contacted law enforcement."

23

that statement?

24

25

enforcement?

On what facts did you base

That she had immediately contacted law

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

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Yes.

I based that on the fact that she told me that

the incident was -- had occurred at approximately 1:30

in the morning, and I had gotten a call around

5:00 a.m., and that she had been at the hospital for

several hours at that point.

What time did the alleged assault occur?

What I had documented is around 1:30 a.m.

Okay.

You testified that Complainant was

10

dropped off and she called a friend to pick her up.

11

that what Complainant told you?

Is

12

Yes.

13

Are you aware that Complainant did not call

14

911 to report the alleged assault?

15

No.

16

Are you aware that Complainant sent and

17

received numerous text messages in the hour following --

18

in the hours following the alleged assault but did not

19

report the alleged assault in any of those text

20

messages?

21

No.

22

Are you aware that Complainant did not call

23

any family or friends to make her initial report of the

24

alleged assault?

25

To my knowledge she had a friend with her.

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

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1
2
3

Okay.

Are you aware that Complainant's

initial outcry was made on Twitter?

A

I have no knowledge of anything on Twitter.

RESPONDENT:

JUSTICE HARDING:

RESPONDENT:

JUSTICE HARDING:

8
9

Okay.

Thank you.

Is that all?

Yes, sir, Your Honor.

Okay.

have any additional questions?

COMPLAINANT:

No additional questions.

10

JUSTICE HARDING:

11

don't have any questions.

12

Thank you very much,

13

JUSTICE HARDING:

15

MS. EGAN:

19
20
21
22

You may be excused.

Thank you.

16

18

Thank you very much.

Yes, thank you.

14

17

Complainant, do you

All right.

JUSTICE HARDING:

Bye.

All right.

I believe that

concludes all of the Claimant's witnesses.

And are we now ready to proceed with the
Respondent's witnesses?
RESPONDENT:

Yes, Your Honor, in just a

moment.

23

JUSTICE HARDING:

24

MS. BUKANC:

25

JUSTICE HARDING:

Okay.

Did you want to put him on mute?

And I believe he would be in

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the conference room, so we'll see you all later.

COMPLAINANT:

MR. KERR:

MR. LEVINE:

Thank you.

Do you have a line up?

I think we're going to begin with

Officer Newlin, or Investigator Newlin.

speak to that more.

MS. EGAN:

8
9
10

David can

Do you want to unmute it and ask

the question before you leave the room?

JUSTICE HARDING:

Yeah, let's do that.

MS. EGAN:

David, we were just talking

Okay.

11

about what the afternoon looks like and who you

12

might call just so we can all be ready.

13
14
15

And we know that Newlin is next.

But we were

just trying to get an idea.

MR. CORNWELL:

Depending upon how Mr. Newlin

16

goes and the brief comment by Respondent, given the

17

evidence we have seen thus far, it will be our

18

inclination not to call any further witnesses.

19

JUSTICE HARDING:

20

All right.

Thank you.

We're going to put you on mute,

21

and I guess it will be for you to come up with

22

Respondent.

23
24
25

MS. JACKSON:

If they can sit tight for just a

second.
MS. EGAN:

Yeah.

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JUSTICE HARDING:

If you will sit tight for

just a second, Robyn will let you know when to come

up.

MS. EGAN:

MR. CORNWELL:

JUSTICE HARDING:

(A break was taken off the record from

8
9
10

Thanks.
Sure.
Thank you.

2:10 p.m. to 2:23 p.m.)

JUSTICE HARDING:
MR. CORNWELL:

All right, Mr. Cornwell.

With your permission, before we

11

call Mr. Newlin, Respondent has asked me to address

12

you directly regarding the status of these

13

proceedings at this point.

14

MR. KERR:

15

MR. CORNWELL:

Regarding what?
The status of these proceedings

16

at this particular point.

17

JUSTICE HARDING:

18

permit that.

May I do so?

May I do so?

I don't know that the Rules

How is that?

19

MS. BUKANC:

What do you mean by status?

20

MR. CORNWELL:

The status of these

21

proceedings, the evidence and the witness testimony

22

up to this point.

23

JUSTICE HARDING:

24

MR. KERR:

25

JUSTICE HARDING:

Well, that would be --

I would object to that.

That would be included in

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1
2
3
4

your post hearing submissions after the conclusion.

I'm not sure, when you say status what do you
mean?
MR. CORNWELL:

We want to talk about the state

of the evidence based on the presentation of

Florida State and the Complainant at this point in

the record.

MR. KERR:

JUSTICE HARDING:

10

I would object to that, Your Honor.

I do not believe under the

Rules, Mr. Cornwell, that that is permissible.

11

Am I correct on that?

12

MS. BUKANC:

13

question before.

14

shared until his decision is rendered.

15

Well, we've never been asked that

No decisions or information is

So there is no status, it's just we -- At this

16

point we've collected information.

17

the status.

18
19

JUSTICE HARDING:

That would be

And so to the objection I

would sustain it.

20

And you can call your next witness.

21

MR. CORNWELL:

22

MS. JACKSON:

23

JUSTICE HARDING:

24

(A brief break was taken off the record.)

25

JUSTICE HARDING:

Okay.
Okay.

So we call Jason Newlin.

I'll go get him.

Very well.

You are Jason Newlin?

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INVESTIGATOR NEWLIN:

JUSTICE HARDING:

Yes, I am.

My name is Major Harding,

and I'm the Hearing Officer that has been

designated for this hearing.

I'm going to ask that we go around the table

and everyone introduce themselves so you'll know

who you'll be talking to.

INVESTIGATOR NEWLIN:

JUSTICE HARDING:

10
11

MS. EGAN:

Let's begin with Ms. Egan.

Carolyn Egan.

INVESTIGATOR NEWLIN:

13

MR. BAJOCZKY:

I work with

Justice Harding.
INVESTIGATOR NEWLIN:

16

MS. BUKANC:

Hi.

Rachel Bukanc, University advisor

to Major Harding.

18

INVESTIGATOR NEWLIN:

19

MS. JACKSON:

20

Okay.

Tony Bajoczky.

15

17

I'm the University

General Counsel.

12

14

That sounds good.

Okay.

I'm Robyn Jackson, Associate

General Counsel.

21

INVESTIGATOR NEWLIN:

22

MR. KERR:

23

INVESTIGATOR NEWLIN:

24

RESPONDENT:

25

MR. CORNWELL:

Yes, ma'am.

Baine Kerr, advisor to Complainant.

All right.

Respondent.
Hi, I'm David Cornwell, the

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advisor to Respondent.

JUSTICE HARDING:

And the court reporter is

taking down everything that is said.

everything that is thought, but everything that is

said.

INVESTIGATOR NEWLIN:

JUSTICE HARDING:

Not

Yes, sir.

And you understand that

these proceedings are private and confidential, and

nothing that occurs to you during the course of

10

this proceeding should be related to anyone else

11

other than those in this courtroom.

12

understand that?

13

INVESTIGATOR NEWLIN:

14

JUSTICE HARDING:

15

And you

Yes, sir.

And you also agree to tell

the truth and nothing but the truth?

16

INVESTIGATOR NEWLIN:

17

JUSTICE HARDING:

18

Respondent, you may inquire of the witness.

19
20
21
22
23
24
25

Yes, sir, I do.

Very well.

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY RESPONDENT:
Q

Mr. Newlin, do you have this report

(indicating)?
A

Yes, that's my report.

I don't have a copy

with me but...
MR. CORNWELL:

Can we make a copy available?

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MS. JACKSON:

Sure.

MS. BUKANC:

JUSTICE HARDING:

MR. CORNWELL:

JUSTICE HARDING:

MR. CORNWELL:

MS. EGAN:

INVESTIGATOR NEWLIN:

MS. EGAN:

Do you need to reference what --

It's Tab 50.

284 through --

11

MR. CORNWELL:

12

JUSTICE HARDING:

Tab?

Fifty.
You've got a copy of it,

right?

14

16

-- 298.

There you go.

JUSTICE HARDING:

15

And the Bate's stamp?

284 through 298.

10

13

What page is --

INVESTIGATOR NEWLIN:

Yes, I do.

BY RESPONDENT:
Q

17

Mr. Newman -MR. CORNWELL:

Newlin.

18

Mr. Newlin, I'm sorry.

19

It's okay.

20

Describe your investigation and its findings.

21

November 14th of 2013 I was asked by our Chief

22

Assistant, Georgia Cappleman, to assist with follow up

23

investigation into this case.

24
25

Throughout this investigation I was in contact

with TPD, with Ms. Cappleman as well as Mr. Meggs our
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State Attorney.

Initially my investigation began by just

reviewing all the reports that were associated with it

and the evidence that was collected at the time.

November 14th I believe was a Thursday, and

that Friday I began attempting to conduct interviews

with possible witnesses that were mentioned in the

report.

My initial contact was -- I was actually

10

initially contacted by Patricia Carroll as referenced in

11

the report.

12

was to go through, Ms. Carroll.

13

interview for the following week with Complainant.

14

That was who any contact with the accuser

I called her, set up an

And then I also -- then my next step was to

15

start trying to investigate or interview possible

16

witnesses in the case.

17

The first one I actually was able to contact

18

was Witness Four.

What I actually recall that day was

19

it was homecoming, and I called her and asked her if she

20

would be willing to interview.

21

would call me right back and let me know when.

22

hear back from her for a little while so I started to

23

try to call her, call her, call her.

She said she would.

She

I didn't

24

Eventually she was able to text me that she

25

was too busy that day, but she would contact me later
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and conduct an interview with me.

I ended up contacting a Witness Five as well.

Witness Five, it took me a while to find him or contact

information for him.

asked him for an interview.

would have to speak with Complainant's attorney prior to

interviewing with me.

we would subpoena him, that things don't normally work

in that direction during a criminal investigation.

10
11

But once we did I spoke to him,

He actually told me he

I kind of explained to him that

He

agreed to interview.
That following Monday, I don't know the date,

12

I was meeting with Georgia Cappleman and we were advised

13

that Ms. Carroll was present at our office on Monday

14

when our original meeting was supposed to be Wednesday.

15

We sat down with Ms. Carroll at the meeting

16

and went through the -- she asked -- she gave us her

17

concerns of the case.

18

would conduct the investigation.

19

us that she had actually eaten dinner and spoken with

20

Witness Four that Sunday night.

21

We spoke to her about how we

And then she advised

So I ended up calling Witness Four back on

22

Monday and getting Witness Four as well as Witness Five

23

to come in on the same day for an interview.

24
25

Both Witness Four and Witness Five came in -and I'll refer to the report.

On the 18th I was able to

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interview Witness Four at the State Attorney's Office.

We swore Witness Four and Witness Five in both before we

interviewed them.

I essentially asked Witness Four to just give

me what happened the evening of December 7th, 2012.

And, actually, prior to that -- I take that back.

Prior to that I asked her, you know, how did

you know Complainant?

How long have you known her?

type of relationship they had.

The

She advised they met

10

during Rush week for sororities.

11

other since that fall which it was December of 2012.

12

since fall of 2012.

13

sorority, but remained friends after the recruitment.

14

They'd known each

So

They did not join the same

Then we jumped forward to the evening of the

15

event.

16

friend, which was Ashley we believe, met at

17

Complainant's apartment actually before going out.

18

said they actually had a few alcoholic drinks in their

19

apartment at the dorm room before they went to

20

Potbelly's because they were going to be banded under

21

and not be able to drink at Potbelly's.

22

She advised that her and Complainant and another

When they got to Potbelly's another friend of

23

theirs showed up who is Witness Five who I ended up

24

interviewing later that afternoon.

25

She

And Witness Five and Witness Four and Ashley

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and Complainant shared what they all recalled to be

about five mixed drinks.

Witness Four advised when she was actually --

she had to go to the restroom.

with her to the restroom and on the way a large -- a

taller black male grabbed Complainant out of the crowd

as they were walking to the bathroom.

8
9
10

So Complainant walked

Witness Four advised it was not in an

aggressive manner.

It was just kind of pulled her over

and started to talk to her.

11

They conversed, Complainant and the black male

12

conversed while Witness Four went into the restroom.

13

She came back out and they were still conversing.

14

Witness Four advised Complainant gave the

15

black male her phone number and he put it in his phone

16

as she walked away with Witness Four.

17

She said at that time this little weird short

18

guy began following them around all night.

19

intimidating them but continued to follow them around.

20

He was not

She said they drank a little bit more.

21

Complainant did not seem drunk to Witness Four at the

22

time.

23

the evening, Complainant showed Witness Four her phone

24

and there was a text message that said meet me out

25

front.

She said at one point in the evening, later on in

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Witness Four recalled the number not being

programmed in the phone because the iPhone -- I guess it

would be referred to as the label.

When you program a phone number in your phone

and provide a name to it the name is associated with it.

There was no name associated with it so she knew it was

a phone number that was not programmed in Complainant's

phone.

She said Complainant looked at her and asked

10

should I go, and she replied you can go.

And she said,

11

and I quote, "within a few seconds she was gone."

12

said she did not see Complainant until the following

13

day.

She

14

Witness Four told -- Okay.

15

Witness Four saw Complainant the following day.

16

Complainant told Witness Four that she tried to call

17

her, and Witness Four said she didn't see any missed

18

calls on her phone.

19

Complainant --

So she couldn't figure that out.

We later did find those attempted phone calls

20

on Complainant's phone to Witness Four's phone number,

21

but nothing completed as a contact.

22

Witness Four refers to text messages that she

23

received from Complainant in reference to her ID.

24

Actually, I take that back.

25

That night Witness Four did not -- The

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interview in November of 2013 Witness Four did not

recall receiving the text messages that occurred on

December of 2012.

We later found those text messages in the --

from the Cellebrite reports conducted by TPD in November

of 2012.

Witness Four didn't know anybody else involved

in this situation.

just not paying attention to what goes on around her and

10

She actually described herself as

not knowing anybody else involved in it.

11

Then Witness Four said it was in class in

12

January when Complainant recognized Mr. Winston as an

13

individual who the sexual encounter occurred with in

14

November, the prior November.

15

said it all made sense at that point as to why

16

Complainant -- Let's see here.

17

essentially just put it together at that point as to

18

what occurred.

19

And she -- Witness Four

That Witness Four

Later that same afternoon I spoke to Witness

20

Five.

21

had known Complainant since the fall of 2012.

22

known Witness Four longer than that.

23

good friends pretty quick during the fall semester of

24

2012.

25

Witness Five was sworn in as well.

Witness Five
He had

They were pretty

Witness Five recalled going to Potbelly's at

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an event or whatever they want to call it.

purgatory.

midnight.

Five was a little off with his time versus Witness

Four's time.

them, he thought he got there before them.

10:15, one was 11:15.

8
9
10

It was $10 all you could drink alcohol until

He believed he got there around -- Witness

Witness Four thought he got there after

One was

Witness Five recalled seeing Complainant

around 11:30.

She was drunk but she was not, in his

words, quote/unquote that girl drunk.

11

He said she -- it was not -- it was not like

12

she needed to go home is what he told us.

13

happy.

14

It's called

She was just

Witness Five received a call from Witness Four

15

telling him what occurred, and he went over to meet

16

Complainant at her apartment and she wouldn't let him

17

touch him [sic].

18

Because this was December of the following

19

year we collected buccal swabs for comparison to the

20

evidence that was obtained in that case.

21

Those are the interviews with those two.

22

We went to interview Complainant that

23

Thursday, the following Thursday, on 11-21-13.

24

with her and her attorney, Ms. Carroll, at her office.

25

It was myself, Chief Assistant Georgia Cappleman,

ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.

We met

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Victim's Advocate Susan Parmalee.

discuss the issues with the case that at the time were

in most -- in Ms. Cappleman's eyes and in ours that were

issues that we needed to clarify.

We were there to

One of the largest issues was we had an

unknown DNA in the crotch of the pants that she provided

law enforcement.

8
9

While speaking with her she -- Ms. Cappleman

asked if there was another individual that we needed to

10

worry about involved in this case, and she said no.

11

goes, do you know who this person is?

12

replied she did.

13

this person was, and she wouldn't tell us.

14

She

And Complainant

And we asked her who it was, or who

Ms. Carroll then asked if she needed to leave

15

the room, if it would help her in talking to us.

16

agreed.

17

She

Ms. Carroll left the room.

Complainant, we asked her again.

She wouldn't

18

tell us.

19

to be involved in this case.

20

knew about the case; and, she goes, yes, she has talked

21

to this person about it.

22

She just told us that this person didn't need

I asked if this person

I asked -- what is not documented in this

23

report, when talking to Witness Five he -- we asked him

24

if she had a girlfriend, and we asked Witness Four if

25

she had -- I mean a boyfriend.

If Complainant had a

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boyfriend.

not she had a boyfriend or not.

recalled her talking about somebody in Ohio, and that's

all we could get.

And neither of them could recall whether or

But Witness Five

So with Ms. Carroll out of the room I asked

Complainant, I said, is this the individual that lives

in Ohio, and she replied it was.

8
9

I still didn't know who he was.

I asked if

this was an individual who lived -- who was from their

10

hometown, and she replied it was.

11

want to tell us who it is?

12

refused to tell us who this other DNA source was.

13
14
15

And we said, do you

And she goes, no.

I got back to the office.

And she

Mr. Meggs, he says

you got to figure out who this person is.

So through internet sources I -- and reviewing

16

her phone calls I located a Jamal Roberts who was a

17

football player in Ohio who was from Dade City, Florida.

18

Tried to get his DNA in Ohio.

19

the holidays.

20

Attorney in the Sixth Circuit I believe it was.

21

He had traveled home for

We ended up having to contact the State

And an investigator, Neil Fraley, down there

22

made contact with Mr. Jamal Roberts.

23

provide the DNA sample.

24
25

Jamal agreed to

And he actually told Mr. Fraley, he goes, I've

been waiting for somebody to try and talk to me or
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somebody to come say something to me.

We asked the following day if Neil -- if

Investigator Fraley would go back and try and interview

him and see if he would provide a statement as to what

occurred.

without subpoena on advice of Complainant's Counsel.

Investigator Fraley did and he refused

We then -- I collected the DNA from Neil

Fraley, took it to TPD for submission to FDLE.

submitted to FDLE with a rush request.

It was

The rush came

10

back as I believe it was a sextillion confirmation that

11

it was his DNA in her pants.

12

At that point our office received contact from

13

Ms. Carroll advising that Complainant had bought those

14

pants after the sexual encounter occurred and that that

15

DNA would not be that of her boyfriend's.

16

just received confirmation that it was.

17

And we had

And then shortly there after that we received

18

another call from Ms. Carroll advising us that Ms. --

19

that Witness Four had worn -- would wear the same

20

clothes as Complainant, and that that possibly could be

21

the source of the DNA.

22

We then informed Ms. Carroll that we had

23

already figured out who it was, and that was the end of

24

the contact with that.

25

We tried to contact the cab driver who picked

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the three black males and a white female up from

Potbelly's to take them to what we later found was

Legacy Suites.

provided with every cab driver that drove that night.

None of them recalled that.

the most interesting responses to the questions we

asked.

picking up, you know, three black males and a white

female from Potbelly's.

10

I went through the cab company and was

I actually received some of

Nobody could recall that kind of drive or

I went to Potbelly's to see if they had video

11

cameras of the incident.

12

but they are on a 30-day cycle.

13

away from the 30 days.

14

us.

15

They do have video cameras,

We were 10, 11 months

So those were not available to

That's pretty much -- We attempted to locate a

16

security guard.

17

he observed Respondent and Complainant leaving Legacy

18

Suites on a scooter, and while doing so he was speaking

19

with a security guard.

20

It was referenced by Witness Two that

We contacted the security company to see if

21

they would tell us who this person was.

22

never heard back from him.

23

further on that as to who the security guard was working

24

that night.

25

MR. CORNWELL:

We actually

We never did verify any

Just one second.

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1
2
3

BY RESPONDENT:
Q

What did Complainant say occurred that night

with respect to the sexual involvement?

She couldn't recall a lot.

She -- let me get

back to it.

being at Potbelly's.

male that she was speaking with while Witness Four used

the restroom.

recalled several females approaching him asking her if

We talked to her -- I spoke with her about

I asked Complainant about a black

She recalled speaking with him and

10

she knew him.

11

him, and they told her his name was Chris and he was the

12

only freshman starting linebacker on the football team.

13

She told the females she did not know

I advised Complainant that witnesses placed

14

Witness One in the front -- the only freshman defensive

15

named Witness One in the front seat of the cab when they

16

traveled to the apartment.

17

that was the front seat passenger in the cab.

18

didn't know that Witness One was the front seat

19

passenger in the cab when they traveled from Potbelly's.

20

She said she did not know

She

As far as details of that night, I don't -- I

21

don't recall us trying to get her to go through it

22

detail by detail again.

23

there we were giving her the perceived problems and

24

trying to get clarification, not having the entire

25

evening laid out again.

So we were -- when we were

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1
2

Did Complainant make her initial outcry on

Twitter?

Yes, she did.

Both Bria Henry and Witness

Three advised that they observed either help me, someone

help me, or come help me via Complainant's Twitter

account.

Witness Three actually referenced it that it

came over and over and over and over which is why she

replied and actually contacted Complainant that evening.

10

Okay.

What time did the sexual assault occur?

11

We don't know.

12

Approximately?

13

The best we were able to determine was through

14

phone records.

15

Complainant to Witness Four, and it said, "Come find

16

me."

17

We had a text at 12:50 a.m. from

The next communication was at 1:40 a.m.

18

was a one second phone call.

19

version so I can't tell you who it went to.

20

It

And this is a redacted

And then at 1:45 a.m., I can tell you this

21

one, Complainant was texting Witness Four, "Do you have

22

my ID?"

23

At 1:46 there is an unknown call.

24

actually at 1:46, I believe.

25

but I'd have to see the unredacted version.

It's

This is the phone call,

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Then Complainant texted again at 1:47 -- or

received a text from Witness Four, "I don't think so."

And then Complainant replied at 1:48, "FUCKKKKKKK."

4
5

Complainant received a text at 1:49 saying,

"It's with your money.

MR. CORNWELL:

At 1:49 she says, "Find it."

Just for the record, you're

referring to Bate's number 288?

INVESTIGATOR NEWLIN:

9
10

Correct, Bate's 288.

Or, yes, 288.

A

11

And then at 1:58, "Did you find it?"

Then at 2:24 Complainant sent a text out to

12

Witness Four that said, "I didn't find it.

13

you?"

14

Where are

The best we were able to narrow the time frame

15

down was between 1:48 and 2:24 because the last text

16

sent by Complainant was at 1:48, and the next -- the

17

following text sent by Complainant was 2:24.

18

Prior to that she was with Witness Four, and

19

after that she was -- That's the best we were able to

20

determine between 1:48 and 2:24.

21

BY RESPONDENT:

22
23
24
25

Mr. Newlin, can you read from 4:42 through

4:46, please?
A

4:42 is, "Will you send me" -- Actually, this

text thread starts at 4:41 and it's, "I got spa-2.

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got spa-2."

We actually asked Complainant about -- that

was answers to a quiz or a homework project, and these

are a classmate of hers who had gotten the answers to a

quiz.

So from 4:41 it's, "I got spa-2."

And then

she asked, "Will you text me your answers, please?"

Then the reply was, "Yep, two minutes".

much."

And three, the answer to number three, "under

10

great stress."

11

"internal locus." Six, "self-efficacy."

12

say in a visit."

13

Eight, "social support."

14

Ten, "prevention."

15

Thank you so

Two, "James."

One, "resiliently." Four,

Five, "Had a

Seven, "stable, internal, global."

Nine, "condoms are often."

And then there is no further text until 8:22.

16

And these texts follow the alleged assault?

17

These texts would have occurred while she was

18

at the hospital and they would have been after the

19

alleged assault, yes.

20

Did Witness Four use the term targeted

21

regarding the male who grabbed Complainant by the arm at

22

Potbelly's?

23

I don't have it listed in there.

I do recall

24

in our meeting with Ms. Carroll she described Witness

25

Four's version of yanking female out of the crowd and

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pulling her over to him in an aggressive manner; and,

then when we spoke to Witness Four the following day --

it was either the following day -- it is the following

day, she said, no, it was not in an aggressive manner,

it was just as if somebody stuck their hand in a crowd

and pulled the female out and talked to her.

7
8
9

What happened to the text message that told

Complainant to come outside?

A

We were not able to find it.

There are

10

several issues that could occur with that, with

11

cellphone technology.

12
13
14

But we could not find it.

What conclusions did you reach in your

investigation?
A

We had, between myself and Mr. Meggs and

15

Ms. Cappleman, it was -- it was difficult to establish

16

probable cause in this case due to the lack of

17

recollection of what occurred by Complainant as well as

18

the discrepancies in what the issues were.

19

We were told by Bria Henry as well as Witness

20

Three that she was struck over the head.

21

to she was intoxicated.

22

and it was a .04.

23

have --

Then it moved

We received the toxicology back

And there was a belief that she may

24

What does .04 mean?

25

.04 grams per deciliter I believe is what it

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is.

limit to operate a vehicle before you're impaired.

.04 is just half of that.

it's actually a .02.

In the State of Florida .08 is the legal alcohol

6
7
8
9
10
11

I mean, if you're under 21

Did she have the capacity to consent to sex?

MR. KERR:

Beyond his expertise.

Object.

Yeah, I don't think I can answer that.

JUSTICE HARDING:

He has ruled on your

objection.
A

Sorry.

BY RESPONDENT:

12

What other discrepancies?

13

We had the possibility of there being a date

14

rape drug placed in the system.

15

University of Florida by a Dr. Goldberger, and he

16

couldn't find any drugs in her system.

17

18

been used?

19

Those are tested at the

Yeah.

Who suggested that the date rape drugs had

Ms. Carroll suggested it, but it's going to be

20

-- it's a standard procedure for us to test for them

21

anyways.

22

that's what occurred in a sexual battery case.

Both of them are going to be tested to see if

23

And how did the investigation conclude?

24

Our office chose not to prosecute this case.

25

MR. CORNWELL:

If we could take a moment?

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JUSTICE HARDING:

MR. CORNWELL:

(A break was taken off the record from

You may.

Thank you.

2:59 p.m. to 3:09 p.m.)

JUSTICE HARDING:

have additional questions?

RESPONDENT:

294.

10

15
16
17

I would like to refer him to page

Okay.

Ms. Carroll discussed the case at a sit down

dinner with Witness Four, true?

13
14

Respondent, do you

BY RESPONDENT:

11
12

Okay.

A
yes.

That's what we were advised by Ms. Carroll,

And Witness Four, yes.

Q

And that was before Complainant met with

you -- Witness Four met with you?

A

Correct.

It was going to be the 17th.

Yes,

18

she met the Sunday before the Monday that we spoke with

19

Ms. Carroll and before we spoke with Witness Four.

20

JUSTICE HARDING:

21

RESPONDENT:

22

JUSTICE HARDING:

23

MR. KERR:

24
25

Anything further?

No further questions, Your Honor.

Okay.

Could we take a quick break to

confer?
JUSTICE HARDING:

Yes, you may.

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1
2

(A break was taken off the record from

3:11 p.m. to 3:27 p.m.)

3
4

JUSTICE HARDING:

COMPLAINANT:

JUSTICE HARDING:

COMPLAINANT:

11
12
13

You may inquire,

Thank you.

BY COMPLAINANT:
Q

Investigator Newlin, I never specifically said

to you that I was hit on the head, correct?

A

Not to me.
COURT REPORTER:

15

that?

16

BY COMPLAINANT:

18

All right.

CROSS EXAMINATION

14

17

Okay.

Complainant.

10

We're

waiting for someone to come back in the room.

Just a moment.

I'm sorry, could you repeat

I never specifically said to you that I was

hit on the head, correct?

19

Correct.

20

And I never specifically said to you that I

21

thought I was drugged; is that correct?

22

I do not recall.

23

Okay.

24
25

In your role in this case you reviewed

my prior statements?
A

Yes.
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1
2

In all of those prior statements I said that I

was at the bar with my friends, right?

Correct.

And that I couldn't remember leaving the bar?

You remembered getting into a cab but couldn't

6
7
8

remember how you got into the cab.

Q

Okay.

But I couldn't recall actually leaving

the bar?

Not that I recall.

10

Okay.

11

Correct.

12

And that I recalled being led into an

13

apartment?

14

And that I recalled being in a taxi?

Depended on which interview.

One of them you

15

did not recall being led into an apartment, the other

16

one you did recall being led into the apartment.

17

And that I remembered being raped on a bed?

18

That is correct.

19

And that another male came into the room

20

trying to stop the assault?

21

That is correct.

22

That I was then taken to the bathroom where I

23

was raped again?

24

That is correct.

25

That I resisted and told him to stop?

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That's correct.

And that I didn't know the identity of the man

who did this?

That is correct.

So I have always been consistent in those

details?

Correct.

In any of my interviews did I say anything

9
10

that indicated to you that I had actually given consent

to Respondent?

11

In one of the interviews with Angulo you

12

referenced not recalling if you gave consent or not and

13

actually mentioned just because you received a text

14

message you didn't believe that was giving consent or

15

not.

16
17

So I never actually said anything that

indicated to you that I had given consent to Respondent?

18

No.

19

Okay.

You mentioned the text messages in your

20

report and Respondent asked you to read my text messages

21

while I was at the hospital, correct?

22

Correct.

23

Just like right now.

24

Correct.

25

Would you now read the messages from

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1
2

11:49 a.m. until 11:53 a.m.?

A

It's page 289.

3
4
5

MR. CORNWELL:
A

Yeah, 289.

From 11:49?

BY COMPLAINANT:

Yes.

Okay.

11:49, "I have to talk to you.

all night in the hospital.

to you."

I spent

The police might try to talk

That was to Witness Four.

10

She replied, "What the fuck happened?"

11

then she also replied, "OMG, you're scaring me."

12

she replied, "Talk to me."

13

then you replied, "I got raped.

14

about it.

My parents are here."

15

my room."

She replied, "I'm coming.

16

"Yeah.

17

whenever you get home come over here.

18

in the room?

19

but they'll leave.

20

way here at 4:00 in the morning."

21

I'm here for you and I'm sorry this happened.

22

really bad I let you leave."

And
Then

Then, "Where are you?"

No, I'm about to cry.

And

I don't want to text

Then you replied, "In
Are you okay?"

It's a long story.

Just

"Are your parents

How did they get here so fast?"

"Yeah,

My dad went like a hundred the whole

23

Well, that's all.

24

Oh.

25

Thank you.

"I love you, baby.

I feel

"Hey --

Have you ever been present for a

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full SANE exam?

No, I have not.

Do you know about how long they take?

I do not.

Okay.

You talked about the DNA that belonged

to my boyfriend, Jamal, correct?

Correct.

And you learned my boyfriend had not seen me

9
10

for months and was in Ohio on December 6th and the 7th,
correct?

11

I never actually learned any of that.

12

Have you heard that?

13

Just now.

14

Okay.

15
16

So the DNA did not have anything to do

with whether or not I was raped, correct?

A

There was an unknown DNA source in the pants

17

of a sexual battery victim.

18

had to investigate that to the fullest.

19

There was no way to -- we

You mentioned that you and Mr. Meggs and

20

Ms. Cappleman decided that it was difficult to establish

21

probable cause, correct?

22

Correct.

23

And the burden of proof for criminal cases is

24
25

beyond a reasonable doubt, correct?

A

Correct.
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You know that Mr. Meggs and Ms. Cappleman

publicly stated that part of the difficulty of the case

was poor police work done by the Tallahassee Police,

correct?

Correct.

They have said that?

Yes, they've said that.

And Ms. Cappleman even said that her

conclusion was that although she didn't feel that she

10

could prove a crime, she didn't necessarily believe that

11

he was innocent?

12

She did say that.

13

Okay.

14

Respondent?

15

We tried, yes.

16

And what happened then?

17

His attorney would not let us speak to him.

Did you ever attempt to interview

We spoke to his attorney.

18

COMPLAINANT:

19

JUSTICE HARDING:

20

Respondent, do you have any additional

21

Okay.

That's all.

Thank you.

Thank you.

questions?

22

MR. CORNWELL:

23

(A break was taken off the record from

24
25

I doubt it, but let us check.

3:33 p.m. to 4:41 p.m.)

JUSTICE HARDING:

Respondent, do you have any

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additional questions?

RESPONDENT:

JUSTICE HARDING:

much.

No further questions, Your Honor.

MS. EGAN:

JUSTICE HARDING:

No.
Thank you, sir.

INVESTIGATOR NEWLIN:

MS. EGAN:

11

MR. CORNWELL:

Be safe.

13

JUSTICE HARDING:

16
17

Thank you for

everything.
INVESTIGATOR NEWLIN:

15

Thank you.

Thank you.

12

14

You may be

excused.

10

Thank you very

Anyone else have questions?

All right.

I will.

All right.

Now, does the

Respondent have any additional witnesses?

MR. CORNWELL:

Besides a brief matter with

Respondent, no.
JUSTICE HARDING:

Okay.

Now, Respondent, you

18

understand, as I previously indicated to you

19

earlier, that you have the right to remain silent

20

or speak, and answer or not answer any questions

21

that are posed to you.

22

You understand that?

23

RESPONDENT:

24

JUSTICE HARDING:

25

Yes, Your Honor.

And you also understand that

this is private and confidential and should remain

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that way from this time forward even after this

proceeding is concluded.

RESPONDENT:

JUSTICE HARDING:

Yes, Your Honor.

did earlier to tell the truth?

RESPONDENT:

JUSTICE HARDING:

8
9
10
11
12

And you agree again as you

Yes, Your Honor.

All right.

Do you wish to

speak with him?

MR. CORNWELL:

Just have this marked and

entered.
RESPONDENT:

Okay.

Can I have these

statements marked and entered?

13

JUSTICE HARDING:

14

RESPONDENT:

15

MR. CORNWELL:

16

RESPONDENT:

17

JUSTICE HARDING:

18

MR. CORNWELL:

19

JUSTICE HARDING:

20

(Respondent's Exhibit 9 was marked for

21

identification.)

22

RESPONDENT:

Which statements are those?

My statement.
From yesterday.

From yesterday.
This then would be --

Exhibit 9.
-- Exhibit 9.

I declare under a penalty of

23

perjury that my statement yesterday is true and

24

accurate to the best of my recollection.

25

And that's Exhibit 9.

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JUSTICE HARDING:

RESPONDENT:

JUSTICE HARDING:

RESPONDENT:

And that is Exhibit 9.

Yes, sir.

Yes, Your Honor.

Okay.

From the Rule 6C2R-3.004(6)(d) of

the Florida State Student Code of Conduct I'm not

going to answer.

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JUSTICE HARDING:

And so you're not going to

answer any additional questions?

RESPONDENT:

Yes, Your Honor.

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JUSTICE HARDING:

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Well, first of all, let me ask if Complainant

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has any questions.

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COMPLAINANT:

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JUSTICE HARDING:

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Yes, we do.
All right.

You may ask

them.

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COMPLAINANT:

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MR. CORNWELL:

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JUSTICE HARDING:

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Just for the record --

sorry.

Okay.

One moment.

You ask them I thought.

Yes, that's right.

I'm

You must submit those in writing.

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COMPLAINANT:

Oh, right.

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JUSTICE HARDING:

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you.

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and I will ask them.

Okay.

I'm learning this along with

But you must submit those in writing to me

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COMPLAINANT:

Okay.

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JUSTICE HARDING:

So if you wish to go confer

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with her, you may do so.

COMPLAINANT:

Yeah, could we have a few

moments to confer?

JUSTICE HARDING:

COMPLAINANT:

JUSTICE HARDING:

MR. KERR:

You may.

Thank you.
Are you going to go down?

I will confer.

I believe that they

are not in printed form but email form and they can

be emailed.

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But I may be able to save time to find out

first whether you intend to respond.

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MR. CORNWELL:

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invoking the Rule.

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RESPONDENT:

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MR. KERR:

He has already answered by

He does not.

I don't using the Rule.

I think I would like to confer, but

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I believe what we would like to do in that case is

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just submit them by email to everyone --

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JUSTICE HARDING:

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MR. KERR:

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JUSTICE HARDING:

Very well.

-- as part of the record.

You may do so.

And we'll

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put you on mute and you may confer with

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Complainant.

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(A break was taken off the record from

3:45 p.m. to 4:53 p.m.)
JUSTICE HARDING:

On the record.

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MR. KERR:

Just as I said before, to make a

record for the subjects, that Respondent is

refusing to address that we would --

MR. CORNWELL:

He is not refusing, he is

exercising his right under the Code not to answer

questions.

MR. KERR:

Please don't interrupt.

-- that Respondent is not addressing that we

would want to have had him address, we'll submit a

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list of those questions by email to be made a part

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of the record if that's okay.

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JUSTICE HARDING:

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marked as an exhibit.

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15

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They will be

(Complainant's Exhibit 10 will be marked for

identification.)

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Very well.

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY JUSTICE HARDING:
Q

All right.

I think it would be helpful, and I

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understand you have exercised your right, and you may

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continue to do so; but, from the purpose of helping the

21

decision maker to understand, the Complainant has

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indicated that she continually resisted by saying no to

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your sexual overtures, and you have indicated that she

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gave consent.

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And I would like to know in what manner,

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verbally or physically, that she gave consent.

ask that with the understanding that you have previously

given.

Both, Your Honor, verbally and physically.

And what did she say and what did she do?

Moaning is mostly physically.

is physically.

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9

And I

Well, moaning

And verbally at that time, Your Honor.

MS. BUKANC:

At what point?

BY JUSTICE HARDING:

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Well, that was during the sexual encounter?

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Yes, Your Honor.

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JUSTICE HARDING:

Okay.

All right.

Thank

you.

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Anything further of Respondent?

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I believe then that that concludes all of the

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evidence.

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Complainant and Respondent, have an opportunity to

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give a brief closing statement.

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And I believe under the Rules,

And, Counsel, you will have an opportunity to

submit a Proposed Order.
And we're changing the rules on the five days.

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The five days will be five class days from the day

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you receive the transcript.

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by the court reporter that that will be Friday.

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And we have been told

And so Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday,

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Friday of next week your Proposed Order will be

due.

understand.

And I just wanted to make sure you

And we have probably over-extended the Rules

by doing that, but we understand the concerns and

give you that.

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And so with that, Counsel, would you like to

confer with your clients about a closing statement?
MR. KERR:

Complainant is ready to give hers.

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And I believe I just learned from Dr. Bukanc that

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she goes first.

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MS. BUKANC:

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JUSTICE HARDING:

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Yes.

MR. KERR:

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JUSTICE HARDING:

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she were in the room.

You know, I guess we --

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MR. KERR:

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JUSTICE HARDING:

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Complainant, you

may proceed.

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Very well.

I think it would be good if

Yeah.
And, Respondent, you and

Mr. Cornwell can -MS. BUKANC:

If you will stay put for a minute

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and we'll situate them in the room, and then Robyn

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will come get you.

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MS. EGAN:

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Robyn will come get you when it's

time for you to switch.

Okay?

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(A break was taken off the record from

3:58 p.m. to 4:02 p.m.)
JUSTICE HARDING:
closing statement.

Are we back on?

MS. EGAN:

JUSTICE HARDING:

MR. LEVINE:

JUSTICE HARDING:

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Complainant, you may make a

Yes.

COMPLAINANT:

Respondent, are you back on?

Yes, we're here.

Okay.

Your Honor, I would like to

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thank you for giving your time and energy to my

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case.

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case due to the intense media, and I'm very

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grateful that you're not one of them.

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I know that many people have avoided this

Yesterday was both an empowering and also a

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challenging day for me.

I don't know that I was

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prepared to hear Respondent say the things that he

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said.

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opening statement was not true.

He knows what happened and he knows that his

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It was hard testifying after hearing his

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opening, but I hope my anxiety didn't preclude me

22

from giving you the answers you needed.

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Respondent has suggested that I have made this

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all up.

I cannot imagine why someone would ever do

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that and go through all of this, and I certainly

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haven't heard any explanation as to why I would

have done that two years ago when I did not even

know who the man was.

The truth is that I told police that I was

raped because that is what happened.

reality and something I will always have to live

with.

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9

That is my

I remain hopeful that the outcome here will be

the right one.

Thank you again.

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JUSTICE HARDING:

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Does Respondent wish to make a closing?

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MR. CORNWELL:

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JUSTICE HARDING:

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COMPLAINANT:

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MS. BUKANC:

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JUSTICE HARDING:

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Okay.

He will come up.

Thank you very much.

Thank you so much everyone.

Thank you.
Hang tight for a minute,

(A break was taken off the record from

4:03 p.m. to 4:06 p.m.)

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A brief one.

please.

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Thank you.

JUSTICE HARDING:

All right.

Let's go back

on.
All right.

Complainant, are you back on the

line?

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COMPLAINANT:

Yes, sir.

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JUSTICE HARDING:

Okay.

Respondent, you have

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the right to make a closing statement.

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RESPONDENT:

Your Honor, as I said, thank you

for agreeing to do this case.

During this process I have learned how vicious

this world can be.

Complainant.

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JUSTICE HARDING:

RESPONDENT:

10

concluded.
Ms. Bukanc, is there anything that we need to
do?
MS. BUKANC:

John Clune has emailed us the

questions.

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JUSTICE HARDING:

Those questions have been

emailed.

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MS. BUKANC:

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MR. CORNWELL:

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Thank you very

And with that I take it these proceedings are

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17

Very well.

much.

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15

Thank you very much.

Yes, sir.

JUSTICE HARDING:

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13

Okay.

Is that all you wish to say?

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I did not sexually assault

That's what you wanted, right?

Emailed you?

Are we getting

it?

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MS. BUKANC:

Someone can forward it.

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MR. CORNWELL:

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JUSTICE HARDING:

Oh, I got it.

Here we are.

They got it.

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MS. BUKANC:

So just as a reminder, on Friday

we should be getting the transcripts.

after that you have five days to give the Judge --

JUSTICE HARDING:

MS. BUKANC:

JUSTICE HARDING:

-- which will be next

Friday -MS. BUKANC:

JUSTICE HARDING:

11

Five school days --

Five school days, yes.

10

And then

Order.

Correct.
-- to submit a Proposed

And then I will have ten days after that.

MS. BUKANC:

And if there is any questions or

12

concerns in between, your point of contact is Robyn

13

or Carolyn.

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MS. JACKSON:

If there are questions about

15

these proceedings you should probably direct those

16

to Justice Harding.

17

field questions about anything else.

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RESPONDENT:

But, otherwise, I'm happy to

Your Honor, are those ten school

days after that or that was just ten days?

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MS. BUKANC:

For him to make his decision?

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RESPONDENT:

Yes.

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MS. BUKANC:

Class days.

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MS. EGAN:

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MS. BUKANC:

25

Well, actually --

It's a maximum.
It's a maximum, but he could --

That's a good question you asked.

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JUSTICE HARDING:

MS. BUKANC:

It will be ten days.

Even when we're in times of

intersession, if we're not in classes, a Hearing

Officer can still render a decision during that

time period.

ten-day period.

So you still might get it before the

RESPONDENT:

Okay.

MS. BUKANC:

So, you know, we wouldn't want to

make anyone wait if the decision is already done.

10

JUSTICE HARDING:

11

MS. JACKSON:

Correct.

But any time period for an

12

appeal would not begin to run until the class days

13

start because appeal times are calculated by class

14

days.

15

MS. BUKANC:

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MS. EGAN:

17
18
19

Right.

Which does not preclude anyone from

appealing earlier than that either.

MR. CORNWELL:
I don't know.

Do appeals stay in discipline?

I didn't see that.

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MS. EGAN:

The Code answers that.

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MR. CORNWELL:

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MS. EGAN:

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MR. CORNWELL:

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MS. EGAN:

25

MR. CORNWELL:

Is it yes or no?

The Code does address that.

Is it yes or no?

The Code says it does.

Okay.

And I wasn't totally

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clear.

or are you issuing recommendations to the President

and the Director of Students, Dean -- I forgot who

it was.

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6

Is Justice Harding issuing a final ruling

MS. EGAN:

Rachel can probably answer that.

It will look just like any other finding letter.

MS. JACKSON:

a first level decision.

I think it will be -- it will be

JUSTICE HARDING:

It will be a decision that I

10

make in regard to the charges that have been

11

brought based on the evidence, and then you --

12
13
14

Well, the parties would have the opportunity

to appeal that decision.
MR. KERR:

And then the smallest of points.

15

Is the designation of the numbers of the

16

supplemental materials just for reference --

17

JUSTICE HARDING:

18

MR. KERR:

19
20

Yes.

-- purposes in the post hearing

submission?
MS. EGAN:

What I think would make the most

21

sense to me, but I'm a little compulsive about

22

this, is to continue at the back of -- pick up at

23

73 and sequentially number everything from there

24

with your supplemental materials.

25

most sense to me but...

That makes the

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JUSTICE HARDING:

In other words, just

indicate Tab 73 contains the supplemental

materials.

4
5
6
7

MS. EGAN:

I guess it will be 74, because I

think 73 is the last one in there.

JUSTICE HARDING:
minute.

Seventy-two is my -- wait a

Oh, my goodness, yes.

MS. EGAN:

Seventy-four will be that.

MR. KERR:

Okay.

10

supplementals followed by the Respondent's?

11

MS. BUKANC:

12

MS. EGAN:

13

JUSTICE HARDING:

Yes.

That makes sense to me.

14

in this same folder.

15

MS. EGAN:

16
17
18

And then the Complainant's

And that will keep them all

Not have two number 2s.

That gets

confused.
JUSTICE HARDING:

Okay.

Very well.

Thank you

very much.

19

MR. KERR:

Thank you.

20

JUSTICE HARDING:

21

pleasure working with you.

22

courtesies.

23

in due course.

And, Counsel, it's been a

And thank you for your

And we will get this matter resolved

24

MR. CORNWELL:

25

RESPONDENT:

Thank you, Your Honor.

Thank you.

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MR. KERR:

Thank you, Your Honor.

MS. JACKSON:

Thank you, everyone.

COMPLAINANT:

Thank you.

(The proceedings were concluded at 4:10 p.m.)

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1
2

HEARING CERTIFICATE
STATE OF FLORIDA

3
4

)
)SS:

COUNTY OF LEON

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6

I, KIMBERLY S. BARTHOLOMEW, Professional Court

Reporter and Notary Public, hereby certify that I was

authorized and did stenographically report the foregoing

proceedings and that this transcript is a true record of

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the proceedings before the Panel and Justice Harding.

11

I further certify that I am not a relative,

12

employee, attorney or counsel for any of the parties nor

13

am I a relative or employee of any of the parties;

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attorney of counsel connected with the action, nor am I

15

financially interested in the action.

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Dated this 4th day of December, 2014.

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My commission

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expires: 2/23/18

_______________________________
KIMBERLY S. BARTHOLOMEW,
Professional Court Reporter
Notary Public, State of Florida
Notary #FF080212

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ACCURATE STENOTYPE REPORTERS, INC.