Trigger/Fire Control Groups tested and evaluated - the "BEST" trigger for... http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_12/366464_.

html

Posted: 3/2/2008 4:05:00 PM [Last Edit: 3/2/2008 5:32:17 PM by septic-tank13]

You ever get tired of reading forum questions regarding the “best” this or that?

The only thing I like less are the responses about the “best” this or that…

www.dictionary.com describes “best” in adjective form as:

1. of the hi ghest quality, excellence, or standing: the best work; the best students.
2. most advantageous, suitable, or desirable: the best way.
3. largest; most: the best part of a day .

I didn’t write this article to rant. Instead I’d like for folks to consid er a few things. When we rate anything as
“best” it is certainly relative. If, for example, a guy test drives four cars on a Saturday and opts to buy one, he’ll
probably tell hi s buddy over beers Saturday night that he bought the best of the four. Did he buy the “best” car
available? Who knows? Of those he tried, he probably bought the best for his needs. No matter how you slice
the bread he only tried four of MA NY available cars… By that rationale how could he possibly determine “best”
from a handful of cars? He determines “best” by those cars he tried and thus, he chose a car that fit his needs.

Some friends and I were sitting around having one of those “best” conversations regarding AR15 triggers and
fire control groups when it d onned on me, that without trying them all we couldn’t really know. Even then, the
AR platform has become so versatile it can be used in any configuration from pistol, CQB, varmint hunting,
medium and large game hunting, precision, competition, long range, extended range, and many others. I can THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT
think of several different trigger weights and styles I’d prefer for most of the appli cations noted above. As a
result I wanted to get my hands on as many of them as I could and do some side by side comparing. To take it a step further, I wanted to have others lay their hands on them for
their impressions as well.

I started contacting trigger makers in October about this test and evaluation. Most of the triggers were donated or of lo w cost for the purposes of writing the article. My commitment
was pretty simple – I’d have a built AR l ower with everybody’s trigger installed, so we could swap an upper onto any of them and do some genuine comparisons. I’d also run lots of
ammo through each rig to see how they worked under heavy use. I wrote letters to 14 makers, figuring I’d h ear from 7 of them, 4 of whi ch would send me something. Four lowers
and plenty of ammunition… Not a big investment on my part… Imagine my surprise when 9 entities sent a total of 14 triggers for test… WOW! I opted to have all the lowers built
prior to an “AR build clinic” I held at my shop. Members of the AR15.com Iowa Home Town Forum showed up and we bui lt uppers and lowers with instruction and theory for those
new and old to the A R platform. I was beginning to wonder i f I’d get it all done in time, but I did. A s a result, folks who came to the build clinic were able to handle A LL the lowers
with triggers installed. We then took those lowers folks were interested in out to my range for some hands on time.

I’ve listed the fire control groups below that I was able to test. As you lo ok at them, you’ll see some pretty neat things. I ended up with the following for test:

Chip McCormick (CMC)

This is a mod ular drop in style trigger. It is very easy to install. You simpl y lower it into the l ower receiver, line up the holes, and you’re nearly finished. Like all drop in units it is
necessary that the trigger and sear pins are held in place. Th ey provide a means to affix the assembly rather than a means for actual fulcrum contact. You simply install the e-clips on
the pins after you drop them in. A word to the wise on this… There is a reason they send you six or seven clips when four are required! My advice is to install an e-clip on the end of
two pins prior to sliding them in. Then, you only have to contend with two little clips against the side of your lower instead of all four. Needle nose pliers worked like a charm for me
and this was extremely simple. I loosened the grip low enough to allow the safety selector to be removed as the detent dropped a bit. I never actually removed the grip, spring, or
detent. Then I installed the tr igger, pushed in the pins, do uble checked the safety, and retightened the grip. The quality i s very good and the single stage unit was impressive.

Although I generally consider myself a single stage guy, I especially like the flat trigger in the two stage configuration. The flat shoe offers me a bit more room to put my finger way
down on the tip and gives me better trigger control. I happened to have this one already on my favorite varmint rig. At fir st I didn’t know if I’d l ike it, but now I can’t imagine using
anything else on that rig. Both the curved and single stage units were very nice. It is amazing to me that makers have come up with drop in uni ts like these. Pin holes and receiver
floor depth vary slightly among manufacturers. You can’t always count on a drop in to be the right choice. The fact is they may not work in every lower. Luckily enough, they ran li ke
a champ in my Superior Arms lowers and I had no installation or function issues.

When I first discussed this with Chip I had this feeling I was going to like him . He speaks clearly and methodically with a southern drawl. He’s a busy guy but he made time for me
and focused on my test. Th e more I i nteract with tests and evaluations, I’m finding a common trend with most of the folks in this industry – they are fine people with great character.

His trigger, like many, was a clear answer to the lack of aftermarket units available at the time he conceived his design. Chip’s roots started pri marily with the 1911 crowd both as a
builder and competitor. He explained to me that on a particular prairie dog shoot he used an A R15 for the first time. He returned, enjoying the tri p and rifle, and opted to give hi s
AR15 some upgrades. After searching for just the right trigger he was still left unsatisfied even though he’d bought or used just about everything available. As a result he built his
own. Chip wanted something that worked well and was easy to install. I’d say he accomplished his goals.

1 of 16 10/21/2011 6:54 PM
Trigger/Fire Control Groups tested and evaluated - the "BEST" trigger for... http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_12/366464_.html

2 of 16 10/21/2011 6:54 PM
Trigger/Fire Control Groups tested and evaluated - the "BEST" trigger for... http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_12/366464_.html

JP Enterprises
-component trigger
-modular trigger

3 of 16 10/21/2011 6:54 PM
Trigger/Fire Control Groups tested and evaluated - the "BEST" trigger for... http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_12/366464_.html

John Paul has a habit of making some pretty serious stuff. His component trigger allows a great deal of adjustability and manages to do it in a very versatile package. Within reason,
you can just about set this thing up any way you’d like. Cr eep, no creep, heavy, light, two stage, single stage, over travel, etc. – it is all there. I wouldn’t say this is a unit for the
complete novice to install, but frankly, with moderate weapons knowledge and basic AR theory you can make this one work. The set up can be tedious, but the work is worth it. You
aren’t going to get a fantastic trigger without some work in most cases. Although I had installed quite a few of them, JP offered to install mine for m e to make certain it was to his
liking. He did it up right… T he lower came back to me in top shape and worked very well. Super pr oduct!

JP also came out with a modular dr op in trigger assembly. To look at the little bugger you have to wonder i f there are little tiny machinists you can hire to do little tiny j obs, or what?
This little piece is a work of art. The basic principles are simil ar to the CMC, but it i s a bit different. This unit uti lizes a pair of screws on the bottom side to contact the receiver floor.
In the case of the CMC, you simply push in the pins they provide and pin them so they can float without vibrating or working their way out either side. With the JP you simply tighten
down the screws against the receiver floor so it bi nds against the pins. Nothing moves after they are torqued. The assembly is held in place and the hammer and sear rotate on
bushings inside the unit, not on the pins. This is a pretty slick unit and easy to install. There was some adjustability as well, which gave it a bit more versatility than some.

4 of 16 10/21/2011 6:54 PM
Trigger/Fire Control Groups tested and evaluated - the "BEST" trigger for... http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_12/366464_.html

5 of 16 10/21/2011 6:54 PM
Trigger/Fire Control Groups tested and evaluated - the "BEST" trigger for... http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_12/366464_.html

Accuracy Speaks
-single stage

Derrick Martin has been running in precision shooting circles as long as I can remember. Even though I don’t believe him to be a picker his pi ctures would indicate otherwise, not that
there is anything wrong with that... The j oke refers to the pics all over his website. When I first visited the site I wondered what the hell was wrong with him. I was foolish enough to
make mention of it as my wife walked by, to which she stopped, took a look and remarked “looks like something you’d do… Would you like to be called the kettle or the pot today
sweetheart?” After giving thi s some thought, I giggled, and fi gured Derrick was my kind of guy. Cheryl, hi s wife, made most all the arrangements for my test and manages to run a
tight ship through Derrick’s absences. I can really appreciate the man/wife teams, as my wife has become a larger part of my small organization over the l ast few years.

His product is pretty darned good. Like many A R triggers it is very sim ple. He has taken a fair design in the stock trigger and made it much better. When I first installed the trigger I
was disappointed. It had quite a bit of creep and it was a bit sticky. No matter what I did, I couldn’t seem to get the stickiness out. For example, if you pulled the creep out of the
trigger and then removed your finger from the shoe, it would remain pulled up tight against the sear instead of returning forward. I bet I took that trigger out and reinstalled it two
dozen times. I tried different trigger springs, i nspections, and lubes. Nothing seemed to m ake it work like what I had expected. Frankly, I assumed from the way it had a tendency to
cam, that a geometry issue may exist. I then opted to put the tri gger in another lower receiver… The probl em still existed.

I ended up calling A ccuracy Speaks, and Marty, their smith, remarked that something must be wrong. He sent me out another unit ASA P. You would not believe the difference. Upon
inspection the only thing I can think of is the sear surface could be suspect. It might have been too long, but it was hard to tell without having both side by side to compare. A brief
phone call later, and I was back in b usiness. It is amazing how well it wor ks. It functions flawlessly now and was one of the most consistent I tested. It also was one of the most
simple. You prob ably couldn’t tell it apart from m il spec stuff, but installed in the lower, you’d have to be stark raving mad to move past the function between the Accuracy Speaks
unit and the mi l spec stuff.

6 of 16 10/21/2011 6:54 PM
Trigger/Fire Control Groups tested and evaluated - the "BEST" trigger for... http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_12/366464_.html

Armalite
-two stage national match

I was hoping to tour the A rmalite facility, but time constraints and scheduling conflicts proved to hol d the proverbial trump card. I can say that traveling often through the Quad
Cities area has its advantages after you recognize you’re in the heart of AR15 country. I plan on visiting there again in coming weeks, so if I can shed some light on the Armalite
organization first hand, I certainly will.

The Ar malite is a very robust design. The first thi ng I noticed was the size and width of the parts. I don’t know if thi s has something to do with mass or strength or b oth. Whatever
the reason, you can’t not notice how stoutly it is built. The function is just as you’d imagine. It works flawlessly like a National Match trigger should. There really isn’t anything special
about the trigger, it just works. I can’t see this trigger failing me. While talking with some of the Armalite staff, they reinforced this theory to me. Their aim is one of reliability and
repeatability. There are no screws, so nothing once tight can become loosened. The disconnector has three slots, so you may move the trigger spring into one of three slots to rise or
lower pull weight a few ounces at a time. This trigger proves to be just about solid as a rock. I’ve listened to some folks who criticize the Armalite and other triggers that are only
surfaced hardened. Al though there is merit in throu gh hardening, a trigger li ke the Armalite NM doesn’t need to be modified or changed, thus the surface hardened hammer and sear
surfaces will indeed last a great while.

7 of 16 10/21/2011 6:54 PM
Trigger/Fire Control Groups tested and evaluated - the "BEST" trigger for... http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_12/366464_.html

Rock River Arms

The Rock River Ar ms unit is very simil ar to the Armali te unit. The RRA construction isn’t quite as large, but maybe size doesn’t matter… Somewhere I can hear my wife giggling
again.

I was given a tour of their facility by Steve Mayer. Although pics aren’t allowed on a general basis, I was able to take some quick snaps of the tri gger bench. Some m ay assume RRA
has a trigger design and some third party casts and cuts the parts. Then a further assumption might be another party bagging them and sending them to RRA to be distributed. I
really hadn’t thought about it either way until I was lookin g at the work being performed. I watched two young men work li ke crazy at the sole job of refining the trigger set. Jason
was working on trigger sets to be bagged and sold. He tuned and pol ished each unit as a matched set. This isn’t a scenario where they snag parts out of a bin and make a “kit” to be
sold. Jason hand wor ks each set in a ji g and each set is shaped, pol ished, and given the di amond stone where needed. Joe was building matched sets that were installed and tested
in RRA lowers – IE, each RRA l ower Joe builds with the RRA trigger gets tuned and installed in that particular lower and then the lower is sent on down the line for the balance of
the work. I wish pics were available as the facility is clean and white. Even the 1911 room is clean and white. It was certainly my kind of work environment. Every area of the facility
was well planned for proper flow, well tooled, and clean. The triggers themselves are super. They work j ust as a NM trigger should. I can say from my o wn experience with lots of
them, they have quite a grasp on the quality control. To say you could pick up a weapon and realize with one squeeze that it was a RRA NM is overstating a bit, but not by much…
What I found interesting was their new varmint trigger. It is very similar to the NM, with a lighter pull weight. Talk about a great unit! If you can install the mil spec stuff, you can
install this. No adjustments, no probl ems, just a fine trigger pull . I haven’t been hearing about the RRA varmint trigger m uch, and maybe it is a secret. If so, it shouldn’t be for
long…

Jason at work:

Joe at work:

8 of 16 10/21/2011 6:54 PM
Trigger/Fire Control Groups tested and evaluated - the "BEST" trigger for... http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_12/366464_.html

Alexander Arms
-single stage

When Bill Alexander and I first di scussed his trigger he was proud of his produ ct and remarked that it was built for reliability and feel. He didn’t really gi ve me the feeling he was
trying to “pitch” me a sales line. Frankly, I was kind of looking forward to it. I now realize my impression of Bill being slightly subdued, could have been by his design… I pulled the
trigger out of the packaging and spent quite a bit of time fondl ing it. T he appearance is beyond belief. The shoe is narrow and slightly forward of the average shoe placement. This
was designed specifically to enhance feel, especially when cold weather requires the use of mittens or gloves. Thi s is a hard trigger to g et used to, but it is certainly worth your tim e.
Take a look at the pics and you’ll notice when the disconnector has allowed the hammer to move up, i t rests at a much hi gher position than the average hammer. Why isn’t i t laying
flat like the position it is i n when the bolt carrier moves rearward, then forward??? Because, it doesn’t have to be horizontal… With a higher hammer position it moves quite a bit less
to contact the firing pin and speeds lock time considerably. The cool factor is certainly in place here as well. The 191 1 guys will certainly take notice of the skeletonized hammer and
trigger. Bill was being coy when he described the trigger. The geometry of the sear engagement is such that there is nearly no camming whatsoever. Even though I have a model with
.050” over center build, the trigger he sells curr ently is built to .005 ” and is the bee’s knees.

9 of 16 10/21/2011 6:54 PM
Trigger/Fire Control Groups tested and evaluated - the "BEST" trigger for... http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_12/366464_.html

Note the disconnector position and the height of the hammer:

10 of 16 10/21/2011 6:54 PM
Trigger/Fire Control Groups tested and evaluated - the "BEST" trigger for... http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_12/366464_.html

11 of 16 10/21/2011 6:54 PM
Trigger/Fire Control Groups tested and evaluated - the "BEST" trigger for... http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_12/366464_.html

Geissele
-DMR

What can I say? Bill and Amy bui ld a super duper unit. I had heard many stories about the Geissele, but never used one myself to any length. I dropped this unit in and i t needed no
adjustment. I simply tried it, and opted to lighten the hammer just a bit, by bending the hammer spring. It br oke like you can’t believe. Again, this is the result of proper geometry
and it shows.

When I visited with Bill about this I wanted to learn as much as I could about his product. I started by asking the proper way to pronounce his n ame. The “Bill” part was pretty easy.
The Geissele part is rarely spoken correctly. In fact I’ve heard his name pronounced so many di fferent ways, I wondered if there weren’t multiple companies we happened to be
talking about. The word “guys” and the word “lee” make up the name, “Guys” + “Lee” = Geissele.

Bill started by explaining that at the time he was shooting matches there were a few nice A R triggers out there, but he really believed there was great room for improvement. He
really set out to make one for himself, and as luck would have it, he did a tremendous job which has turned into a highl y successful business for him and hi s wife. Our conversation
was too long to depict here, but suffice it to say I was very impressed. Not only was I impressed with the product, but more with his approach. Bill set out some basic parameters
when he began his design. Things like function, geometry, use of full power springs, etc. were all on the list, but he specifically left out price. He told me he didn’t want cost to
influence the build and as a direct result of sparing no expense, he has come up with a winner. He’s now moved onto automatic fire control assemblies. Did anyone ever expect to
have the blessings of a fantastic trigger and auto capability i n the same rifle? They rarely go together, so if you’re in the market for such a thing Geissele can provide…

12 of 16 10/21/2011 6:54 PM
Trigger/Fire Control Groups tested and evaluated - the "BEST" trigger for... http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_12/366464_.html

13 of 16 10/21/2011 6:54 PM
Trigger/Fire Control Groups tested and evaluated - the "BEST" trigger for... http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_12/366464_.html

Timney
-modular

Jason Mladineo and I spent a bit of time on the phone. T his is the second project he and I have worked on together. I recently wrapped up a three month test with a Timney trigger
for the precision bolt crowd. Many of these kinds of tests can be handled without a single call, but I m ust admit, I enjoy visiting. J ason certainly fits in this group. T he Timney trigger
is similar to the JP and CMC in that it drop s in and provides a bit of room for slop. IE, if your lower is out of spec a bit, you can probably get by. This uni t is pretty simple to install.
You simply drop it in, use the stock pins to hold the unit in place, and then tighten the two floor screws so they protrude under the trigger housing into the lower receiver floor. The
two screws essentially bind the unit into place and the bushings built into the trigger housing provide the bearing surface for the hammer and sear, not the stock pins. I had trouble
with the Timney unit when I used some surplus ammo. A fter diagnosing the problem I noticed I was getting light p rimer strikes. I called Jason up and he explained that even though
the AR15 trigger will usually strike arsenal primers, it was never meant to. He suggested that if you intend on using mi litary grade ammunition, that a person buy the A R10 trigger
Timney offers, as it provides heavier springs and a higher mass hammer for certain ignition. To verify his guidance I ran a handful of nearly every .223 ammo I had lying around,
and I didn’t have a failure. Problem solved.

The fit and finish are super on this unit. These little units really are a work of art. I even like the skeletonized trigger shoe as it adds a bit of flair to the design. I tried this unit with
oil, grease, and I even polished it dry, and it still worked well regardless of what kind of lube or absence thereof I gave it.

14 of 16 10/21/2011 6:54 PM
Trigger/Fire Control Groups tested and evaluated - the "BEST" trigger for... http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_12/366464_.html

DPMS
-mil spec semi auto group
-mil spec semi auto group with JP lightweight (yellow) spring kit

In every test like this you have to provide a constant. Granted, stock mil spec stuff is hardly a constant, but when you look at the stock springs and recognize their intended use, we
can all agree it i s highly effective.

When you add a set up JP “yellows” as many people call them, the trigger pull i s much more respectable. The yellow hammer and sear spring set are simply lower weight sprin gs.
The nasty creep isn’t removed, but the gravel of a stock trigger is lessened to some degree. For $8, they are worth taking a look into and may be a compliment to the trigger you
already use.

15 of 16 10/21/2011 6:54 PM
Trigger/Fire Control Groups tested and evaluated - the "BEST" trigger for... http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_12/366464_.html

The Sum:

To declare a winner is tough as it would be li ke writing in a “best” vote. I specifically want to avoid that, so we’ll look at this from another angle. T he word “favorite” comes to mind.

My favorite component trigger was the Geissele. It was amazing in terms of build, function, and while combining all the attributes of a great trigger it manages to do it with high
weight springs. This i s a big deal, as low weight springs can fail to ignite some primers.

The Accuracy Speaks trigger was very impressive as well. From a glance it looks ju st like a mil spec unit, but manages to provide a crisp 3lb single stage pull that is r epeatable and
reliable all with high weight springs. Adjustments and screws aren’t necessary as it performs well consistently.

My favorite drop in trigger was a tie. I liked my CMC two stage flat trigger as much as any I tried, but the JP unit was right there alongside. All proved to be great units, but if you
consider the possibility that the screws that hold the assembly in place for the JP and Timney could back off, you could h ave a problem. In the case of the Timney there is nothing to
stop the pins from falling out should the screws loosen, however a set of KNS pins would remedy the issue should you choose to employ that kind of contingency. The JP does have
pins that screw together, so even if you lost the tension of the assembly screws, you could conceivably stay in the race unless more problems arose.

The dark horse for me was the Al exander Arms unit. I have to give high marks for the raised position of the hammer as well as the forward position of the trigger shoe. As I stated
earlier I didn’t figure the AA unit would amount to much as Bill specifically asked me not to hope for much. As it turns out, the trigger was very much to my liking. Again, the shoe
takes some getting used to, but in the end it appears to be very reliable and provides for an ultra fast lock time.

When it comes to the NM triggers it is hard to say which unit is a clear winner. Both the RRA and the Armali te are super units. You’d just about have to flip a coin, but i f I was going
to have to choose, I’d look to the RRA unit by a nose for no other r eason than trigger feel.

My Thoughts:

I learned quite a bit about triggers, basic buil d design, sear/hammer relationship, geometry, etc. throughout this affair. One thing that sticks out in my mind i s how trigger pull
doesn’t always dictate hammer spring strength and/or lock time. In cases where we are using lightened trigger springs, there can be a risk of light prim er strikes. This is basic physics
and is hard to avoid. A s such, I gained a new found respect for those companies that were able to combine low trigger pull weight whil e still achieving a quick lock time usi ng
stock/mil spec trigger spring weights. Thi s is truly a result of changing the hammer/sear relationship and the angles. I know it sounds simple, but it i s tough to actually achieve.

Also, the materials used in these triggers vary greatly. Some are using surface hardened material, while others are through hardened. To take it a step further, some folks incorporate
a chromed surface along the hammer and sear face. The springs are made of varying materials as well. To make the assumption that they are simi lar is true, but misleading. I can
tell you the notion of the age old “15 m inute trigger job” is o ne I’ll forget forever with no reservations… The funny thing about AR15 triggers is that they are so simple that
everybody thinks they can snip off half the spring here, and bend a bit there and you’re in business. Sure, you’ve lowered the pull weight, but don’t bawl about FTF (fail to fir e) issues
afterward… Granted, there are places and instances where buffing and pol ishing past a surface hardened part will work, but for reliability and any d ecent volume of fire it should be
considered an all around bad idea. For the guy who runs a couple of thirty rounders through hi s A2 once a year, a polish job and snippi ng off half the trigger spring might do fine,
but don’t expect reliability. I’ve seen too many 3 gun competitors who were trying to get by inexpensively find out the hard way that you can’t rely on a poor trigger job.

Grabbing a set of JP yellow springs for your AR plinker sounds like a winner to m e, just as using a Geissele in your Designated Marksman Rifle sounds like a winner. Both are
appropriate uses of product with quite a cost differential. Would I use a drop in trigger for military applications? I pr obably wouldn’t. Would I use a NM trigger for a varmint gun? I
probably wouldn’t. If you di ssect this enough you’ll find there are places where each product fits and fits well.

This bri ngs us full circle. Each one of these triggers has different features and attributes. If you add the fact that not every unit is meant to be used by the mi litary, and some are
marketed towards the varminter, hunter, 3 gun competitor, plinker, precision shooter, and otherwise A R fan, you can see they all have a place. There is no “best” here among them in
my humble opinion. There is only what is pr oper and prudent for your shooting needs. When you seek to build an AR15 and come to the fire control group question, you need to
ask yourself first and foremost: what will I be doing with this trigger 95% of the time? When you answer that completely honestly, you’ll be i n a good position to choose the “best”
trigger for you.

I’d like to thank everyone for their cooperation throughout this test and evaluation. I not only enjoyed the triggers and the testing, but I genuinely value the conversations we’ve had.
I believe our relationships are in their i nfancy. Again, thank you for ALL your cooperation.

I encourage you all to follow the provided l inks to learn more about each trigger directly from the good folks that make them.

-Michael

www.geissele.com/

www.accuracyspeaks.com/

www.alexanderarms.com/

www.armalite.com/

www.rockriverarms.com/

https://www.chipmccormickcorp.com/

www.jprifles.com/

www.dpmsinc.com/

www.timneytriggers.com/

********

link to my AR build clinic gathering in the Iowa Home Town Forum

September 11, 2001

16 of 16 10/21/2011 6:54 PM